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Discussion Starter #1
First off wanted to say thank you to Jeremy for excellent customer service and a great product. I messed up my cam install and Jeremy was always ready to help me out with all my problems.

My setup is a simple one:
k24/k20 frankenstein
12.5 c/r wiseco ibspec rods h beams
k20 head with supertech flat valves and springs
ebay header
hytech 2.5 exhaust catback to a twin loop
rbc with stock throttle body
cheap intake
91 pump gas

The story is that I was stock and wanted to upgrade my cams. I decided to try on skunk2 stage 3 cams. Started the car to a very noisy valve train. Called skunk2 and all they told me to was tighten the slack when I see it while hand turning the crank. Did that and still noisy. Got passed that and went to go tune, at church.


DYNO LEGEND:
Blue line is drag cartel stage 4s cams
Light blue line is stock 02-04 type s cams
Green line is skunk2 stage 3 cams



Skunk2 cams making 291-292 hp range. With stock I was already making 282 hp and even more torque.



Unhappy with my gains I went back to the drawing boards and decided to go with drag cartel stage 4s.



I noticed a huge reduction in valve train noise and a better response. Top end was a huge difference as well the torque.

This was all tuned by Daniel aka palmerblock at church automotive testing. Even he noticed that these cams were much more efficient at making power than the skunk2 stage 3s.
 

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Cartel great cams!!!



Dynopack #

Marc P
lol understood. but that means s2s3 only made 9whp more than stock cams? is that right? and cartel cams made 24whp more than stock cams. not trying to discredit anything here... i'd just think s2s3 would make more than 9whp over stock and cartel would make more as well. i'm sure the 2.5 twinloop and rbc with stock throttle body is maxing out too in the equation so 24whp over stock cams is pretty impressive! none the less, great gains on the cartel cams and thanks for posting up the graph :up:
 

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hmm so the S2S3's barely made any power over PRB cams and they actually lost torque? Something else is going on maybe... someone else on here has used those same cams and made almost 100whp more than you and lots of people have made nice numbers with them.
 

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hmm so the S2S3's barely made any power over PRB cams and they actually lost torque? Something else is going on maybe... someone else on here has used those same cams and made almost 100whp more than you and lots of people have made nice numbers with them.
100whp more? lol Are you talking about a full blown race motor with a dry sump and high compression? running 103mm stroke and ITBS.. I dont think you can compare that motor to a simple build
 

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If stock type s cams, made 282whp on the dynapack, I guess that would be close to 250whp on a dynojet.. so the 306 is around 275 which is what we have seen in more than 10 of these simple build motors..

for more power, you can go to a bigger throttle body, use a bigger header and port your RBC or go to a bigger manifold.
 

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on 99mm strokes, I think a bigger tube header can increase the horsepower most easily..

did some testing with these headers



rougly with not much tuning




another header test on same motor comparing rcrew header vs big header that used to be on 105mm k24a scottie used to run in california

 

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Wow 282 on stock cams
How is the car on a 91 tune? I thought the lowest you can go is 93 on a 12.5:1?
 

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Nikos, can you recall the diameter difference between the bigtube header and smalltube header?
I dont remember the exact dimensions and these custom headers are the bread and butter for the black art of header making which is headed for extinction due to the asian replica we doing it for the budget racers take over movement so to speak.

The right header is short of the last frontier once you get the motor running. Designing the right header on paper from pure specs is based on experience and there is always room for improvement. That is why when the IPS race program started with Norris, they were using an adjustable header that had adjustable primary and secondary lengths. At high rpms and while making a lot of power, a small change can create a big difference.
 

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Which version of skunk cams did u have first off?

Second off 9hp and bashing sk2 is ridiculous because they are right ur suppose to tighten up the tensioner atleast with the old version of the cams...... But to each there own im glad u made the power u made with the drag cartels with that setup sounds good now go put some numbers down on the blacktop and let us know what she does.....
 

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100whp more? lol Are you talking about a full blown race motor with a dry sump and high compression? running 103mm stroke and ITBS.. I dont think you can compare that motor to a simple build
Im not saying he can/should be making 100whp more on that motor, of course not. My point was the S2S3 cams have potential so when a graph comes out and they barely beat PRB cams on a 2.4 maybe something else is going on...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The car is on pump gas 91. There is no 93 octane near where I'm from.

I'm not trying to bash skunk2 at all. But the proof is there nothing is different I dyno'd just a few days after because I was unsatisfied that I spent nearly 1000 bucks for cams that only made about 9 hp over stock at church's. Even the tuner said these cams are weaker than stock other than the top end which made no sense to me.

With an urging to make more power I decided to go to drag cartels stage 4. The tuner and I was super impressed with the results based on how we ran the test back to back day after next and resulted in such an impressive gain.

These skunk2 stage 3 cams were version 3, I got it brand new from a direct source of skunk2.

282WHP with the stock cams is very impressive even I know that but the engine is very limited to revs as you can see it drop off after 8k rpm. Compared to higher revving cams which creates more area under the curve this would be faster times on the track. All in all I am not bashing on skunk2 but I just want the truth to be out there and this is the truth.

Both these cams has more potential its just my setup is more restricting if anything with the 2.5 twin loop ebay header, ghettod intake. I should get these things fixed but in a way I don't feel the need to because I like what I have. I'm not cheap either so don't think that.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Stock cams graph. I did a checkup after installing a new valve train since I bent a valve.

 

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I dont remember the exact dimensions and these custom headers are the bread and butter for the black art of header making which is headed for extinction due to the asian replica we doing it for the budget racers take over movement so to speak.

The right header is short of the last frontier once you get the motor running. Designing the right header on paper from pure specs is based on experience and there is always room for improvement. That is why when the IPS race program started with Norris, they were using an adjustable header that had adjustable primary and secondary lengths. At high rpms and while making a lot of power, a small change can create a big difference.
10-4, I was just curious cause i had ordered my $1290 Custom header from ASP, and never thought to think if mine was considered a bigtube or smalltube header.
 

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Most custom header builders use the 1 3/4'' stepped to 1 7/8''. Bigger beefed up motors will run 1 7/8'' stepped to 2''
 
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