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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What's up bros, hope you're all having a tremendous Tuesday morning. I wanted to introduce myself and start with this thread that I will be updating frequently.

I just purchased a super clean example of a stock 95 Del Sol. I'm NOT looking to do a cheap budget build, I have the funds to hook this car up and make it perfect. I have no problem spending 20k on this build.

My goal is to track the machine. I want the best suspension for cornering possible, but I also want to avoid rice completely. Obviously I want to drop a k20 or k24 in it. I want to do all of this myself, I have no friends (forever alone) to help me with the build so I will be going it solo. This is my first time working on cars significantly, although I've done work on motorcycles and other things so I'm confident enough in my skills for this build.

What suspension do you suggest for my track build? Any tip, trick or youtube vid that will help is appreciated.

I expect to update this main post with pictures and updates so stay tuned:coffee:
 

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Welcome.

I’d like to see where you end up with your Del Sol. I own a Del Sol as well, but he needs some TLC. He is mechanically sound, but the body and interior need massaging. Eh, it’s not what it looks like, it’s what it do.

Is the car going to be strictly tracked? That will help determine what suspension you use, in terms of bushings (hard rubber, polyurethane, spherical) and coilover system. If it will never see the street/highway, spherical might be the best way to go there, as the suspension NVH wouldn’t matter in that case. There are multiple companies that make those products, but I only have experience with PCI. The other companies I know of are Hardrace, ESM Race, and Kingpin Machine. In the autocross/road race forum, you can see if those guys can guide you towards a particular bushing/coilover system for your application.

You will get different answers on whether to choose a K20 or K24 for your application. I personally have a K20/24 hybrid, and I wouldn’t look at anything else after I’ve experienced it. That’s just me. Someone else might have a different opinion. I have no idea how it works in the autocross/road race world in terms of engines. As in where you’d be classed with either engine. I’m sure someone can answer that question for you.

To perform the swap, I’d say all you need is a basic understanding of how to work on the systems you will encounter during the course of the swap (other than the necessary tools). Cooling system (bleeding more specifically), wiring (there is some wiring involved) and following aftermarket directions (drilling, cutting, wiring), among other things. There are “novices” that are actually skilled, and then there are those who have no clue where to begin. As with anything else

If it will be stripped and you don’t care to have the console panels in, you might consider installing the shifter on top of the tunnel with a shifter plate, rather than cutting a hole in the tunnel. You’ll still need to cut a hole through the firewall to run the cables for that setup. If you decide to cut the tunnel and use a mounting plate, I’d suggest that you get the exhaust system ceramic coated (at least the header and mid pipe) and run some kind of heat deflection material because once the billet shifters get hot from the exhaust the shifting starts to feel “off”. The Del Sol tunnel is higher than the EG/EK Civics and DC Integras so it could be less of an issue, but I know for a fact after driving around during the summer and really getting on it, the HR and KTuned shifters I’ve used did not shift the same way afterwards. Only the OEM ES1 shifter box (good for Del Sols as its lever is 1” shorter than a stock RSX shifter box) I used wasn’t affected by the heat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Wow, thank you @jr_deleon for that excellent post.

Yes I forgot to add, I have been thinking about making it a street legal "track" car. I still want to take the car for a stroll sometimes. I'm not looking at 3 second 0-60 car or anything, but if I want to beat a stock mustang in a strait line I would like to be able to.

Very interested in this 20/24 hybrid you're talking about. You're making it sound like it's the only way to go. I have been watching swap vids like a rabid animal the past few days and getting mentally prepared. I just picked the car up yesterday, I want to move on this project but there is no deadline or anything. I have a lot of the tools needed including a welder already.

Check it out, it even has that crazy 90's paint that changes in the sun :sneaky:
Loving the car it just needs a bunch of new parts!
104361
 

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Okay, you hit close to my heart here. Loving it. Had a turbo k24 del sol back in the day.

Couple questions, since a basic budget is already answered. What class are you shooting for to running in? That will dictate a large part of the direction you will take. Secondly would be where is your location and how far can you bend street legal? I'm familiar with the laws of the land here but not sure about you.

Spericals are awesome for a track car. But rules will dictate that.

Grenada black peal? Love it.

I suppose you need to decide how far into the track side you want to go. If you want a weekend warrior that will be a different but still very potent direction that I would recommend. If you are striking a balance of ok to quick track car and fast but not the fastest street car I can recommend things for days. Bolt on mustangs aren't really too much of a problem for a mild built k24 or boosted K20.
 

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In regards to the K20/24 hybrid, that was just my experience with it. It was perfect for me but eventually I am going to boost it. I drive it daily and it has more than enough power to humble some of the big boys out there (relative to what I have). Full interior, all the speakers and radio. It still moves. I always wanted to ride in a K swapped car when the swap was about 10 years old at the time to see what the hype was all about. I never did get to ride in one so I decided to do the swap myself. After driving it around I confirmed it matched the hype in spades, at least for me.

As drtye said, you have to determine how far down the track rabbit hole you want to go. Now if you want the car on the street from time to time, it would maybe change your priorities. Spherical bushings will last on the track, but on the street? Not long at all. Plus the harshness on the street will drive you insane unless you have a high tolerance for noise and harshness. The alignment settings you would use on the track will not be what you’d want on the street. And we haven’t even started on the tires and brakes. So there is a lot to think about when making that decision.

No matter which way you go, K20 or K24, all motor or boost, you’ll have fun. But if you’re tracking it, you need to figure out where you want to go and how far you want to go with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Alright you guys, bouncing ideas around has been a big help so far. @drtye Thanks man! I hope this build can live up to your expectations!

I am now leaning heavily towards a fully trackable machine, no street. Thinking about my reasoning for a street beast really doesn't make much sense. I already have a luxury sport auto car that turns heads as a daily, perfect for the street IMO.

The only good reason I can think of to make this build a track/street combo is so I can show off to the very rare car enthusiast around town? Maybe once in a blue moon race a mustang on the street. That doesn't sound like a great reason and on top of that I will be paying insurance, dodging cops etc. May sound cool when you're 16 but I'm not boy racer anymore.

On the flip side, noise and vibration and all that doesn't bother me much. I've ridden two stroke dirt bikes and owned a Honda 600cc sports bike. Nothing can be less comfortable than those two things, so driving a track beast on the street wouldn't kill me. As far as stiff suspensions on cars goes, the only experience I have is a WRX suspension which was pretty brutal, but I imagine a track dedicated machine has a much stiffer suspension than stock WRX. It sounds stupid to drive with spherical suspension on the road as I imagine any bit of debris will wear the mirror coating on the spherical bushings, so not sure what the point of driving it on the street would be.

I suppose the Gears and Gasoline's K swapped hatch is kind of what I'm shooting for as far as performance. I think I saw Ben pass a Porsche and Tesla in that little monster. That would feel pretty good I would imagine.
 

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I watched some of the content in the video so I have an idea of what you’re looking for in your build.

That car has 260-270 whp on e85 (first motor) and I believe it was 250ish with the second one (because of class rules). That’s more or less what you could expect as far as performance goes if you went that route. Aside from bolt-ons and the cams, it’s not an intense build relative to what I thought you were implying. It’s pretty much a stock bottom end with a Type S oil pump. And the suspension is not such that it couldn’t be driven on the street. Those KTuned arms in front and back are equipped with hardened rubber bushings in them. They have different sets of coilovers for different tastes as well. Just set the alignment up to be less aggressive on the street and it could serve street duty. You could take on some Mustangs with that setup, but which Mustang model are you talking about? The EcoBoost, GT, GT350, or GT500? There’s a pretty big swing in quarter mile times between them.

If you think that car is badass in the turns, wait till you try some of the upgraded LSDs on the market. In the video they used the 06-11 Si trans with the OEM LSD. I used an OEM LSD before and I have an MFactory Stage 1 racepak in my trans now. They are totally different. I couldn’t be as aggressive with the OEM one as I am with the MFactory LSD. It wants you to accelerate in the turns and the more you give it, the more confident you feel pushing it in a turn. I run Advan A052s so it’s not going anywhere. I did not feel that with an OEM LSD. It’s strictly a street and highway car, but it could probably turn some pretty good times at the track if it were aligned for it.

I’m more interested in what you’ll have cooking up. Just don’t get a “standard” clutch as the guy in the video states. I personally have never heard of K swaps holding 300+ with a “standard” clutch kit. Now if he meant Exedy’s stage 1 clutch kit that’s different. Maybe that’s what he’s using. I can’t see the part number on the box.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Yeah, at first his car kind of sucks and his suspension wasn't dialed in. In a later video he has his buddy rebuild his transmission and throw a new LSD in there, I think it makes a massive difference for him. He also just added spherical bushings in a recent video. I'm not sure what he does to the motor but I think he did some porting. He also gets what it seems is a body kit custom fabricated just for him. I think somewhere it is said he ends up with about 30k into the build (I'm aiming for about that).

So for suspension it seems some of the biggest components are the LSD, control arms, coil overs and tires. Now I need to start thinking about what I will do to the motor, which bolt ons and if I want to polish heads. I don't think I will be going with a turbo right off the bat here, I think there's plenty of power to be had at my skill level with NA. I'm thinking street is out the window and I want a pure track car.

NCM motorsports in bowling green is the closest track to me that suits my needs. I think that's where I'm looking to cut my teeth at when I get everything done.
 

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Well, sounds like you have the direction. Next would be to crack open the rule book and start reading. See what is and isn't allowed, find some gray areas. It will surely let you know where to focus at least.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Here's a dumb question. Is there a universal set of rules that all tracks use in the FWD races? I was looking at NCM tracks upcoming events and I don't see anything specific, just a bunch of open class stuff. I did find a ruleset for a different track though.
 

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Outside of say, needs to pass a tech inspection. You need long pants, helmet that sort of thing?
It really boils down to the individual track on how or what is enforced. If there is a sanctioning body like scca or fia then they have their rules that will likely envelope any track rules and then some. Aside from say burnouts in the pits or a mph restrictions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Alright, well then I will have to do a lot more research on track rules and such. Since the track closest doesn't seem to have a ton of rules, I will probably have to look at different tracks and consider if I will be traveling around to them. If so I will have to set up my car according to those rules. Wonder if there is a racing forum I can inquire about this?

So after quite a bit of youtube searching for my favorite engine build video, I settled on one by a youtuber named SERGMOTIVE GARAGE. It's a k20 head k24 block build that produces about 270HP. I would honestly be pretty happy with those numbers, I know it's nothing crazy but like I said I'm a newb so it will be plenty for me. I won't necessarily be copying his build part for part but I feel like his build series is tremendous, great camera work and he explains stuff very well. Only thing is he has a RSX so I'm not sure all engine parts are compliant with both vehicles, but don't see why they wouldn't be.

Looks like my first purchase will be a K20 head.



Edit: today was my first day doing something to my honda. Check engine was on, I diagnosed with a paper clip and fixed a MAP sensor problem. used an old tooth brush that still smelled like tooth paste and scrubbed the connection, good as new 😅
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well I just discovered Drag Cartel's long blocks...So tempted to just go that route. I kind of wanted to do the engine build myself though. :unsure:
 

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I would think you’d have to look at the rules of whatever class you plan to run in before you drop in a DC long block. That goes for other areas of the car as well. Seems like you still have a lot to decide on. Take your time and get the right parts for whatever you’re trying to do…the first time.

If I were in that area, besides the tires and suspension, oil pan (and oiling in general) is the area I’d focus on. K series engines are known for that issue in the turns (I don’t remember if it’s long right-hand or left-hand turns). At the least set yourself up with Tractuff’s oil pan baffling service (for either the aluminum or steel pan). Or you can always get a baffled oil pan and be done with it. I drive on the street with a Moroso steel pan. Baffled up and higher oil capacity. My car sits high enough to where I have enough clearance. I learned my lesson with an oil starvation situation on a hard long turn and spun a bearing with a stock pan. Not an issue since.

Being that you are “new”, there are a lot of parts you’re going to find out about that have been out for a while. 270whp with a K20/24 is definitely doable with not much effort, and it can be done on the stock bottom end as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Thanks brother, I am getting pretty overwhelmed with all the options and variations. So many decisions to make. o_O I guess that's what makes these motors so amazing and customizable!

Jr now you're making it seem so easy to make 270hp that I'm tempted to try at more? lol but like you said I need to do a lot more thinking about where I want to race this car.

Then there are all these new terms I'm learning, like "engine core". I gather that is just old engine parts that you replace with your aftermarket parts?
 

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A core is basically your old part, whatever it may be. If you were to buy a remanufactured part, like a caliper for example, it would be $50 for the caliper itself and they would add a refundable core charge of $40 for a total of $90 excluding taxes. You can choose to either bring in the old caliper and receive a refund of $40, bring in the old caliper so they don’t charge you the core at all, or choose not to bring them the old one and just pay the full $90. Works the same with anything that has a core charge. It is subject to the approval of the company whether to issue you the core charge in some cases. Some people put a part that isn’t exactly what they bought in the box (bringing in a manual steering rack as a core for a power steering rack), others put in a part that cannot be reconditioned (sending a short block that has a hole in it as a core). Some companies will catch this, some don’t. It depends on what the part is, and if the staff actually inspects. Some even stipulate that the part returned must match the one purchased or has to be in a condition that it can be rebuilt. Its a matter of human error in the end.

There are guys that do basic builds and get that power level. This forum is rich with content like this. For instance, in the All Motor section, there is a sticky with dyno numbers for K series builds, ranging from stock with bolt-ons to fully built engines for drag applications, pump gas to race fuel, and everything in between. You can see for yourself how easy it is. It all comes down to the combination of parts. There are some parts that have proven to work many times over for stock to even turbo builds (such as the RBC intake manifold from the 2006-11 Civic Si) and you will also see parts that don’t work very well in an application: Like putting a camshaft set meant for a drag application in a stock block K20 or K24. For the most part, a stock K24a2 or JDM 3 lobe K24 with a 50 degree VTC, an RBC intake manifold, good header (assuming you have a 2.75” or 3” exhaust), maybe even a Type S oil pump on pump gas and KPro should net you 220-240whp before you even drop cams, the higher flowing PRB head or e85 into the equation
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
I have came to the conclusion that I will be modeling the car around Gridlife time attack at Gingerman and ultimately SCCA time trials which is hosted at Bowling green. I'm having trouble finding HP requirements for the SCCA rules but the Gridlife rules are easy to find. I'm thinking Gridlife ClubTR (225-300hp) to start and the maybe think about getting a boost and aim for 300-400 HP for the Gridlife Street later down the road.


Sorry if I made it seem like I was going to build a 500whp beast with a 20K budget. I didn't realize you can get 250hp on a much lower budget. If I can get the car I want for a lot less money than expected, that's great. Once I quit cornering like a pussy and can make use of the 250 I can look at a boost in horses. The most important thing is I have top of the line suspension parts, I want this little car to corner like a Porsche.

Wanted to add if I can get 300+ with NA easily I will give it a shot.

So yea just wanted to update that I decided on a rule set! 👏🍾
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Do you have already a plan how to reach that level of cornering ability?
Lol, good question. I don't have anything concrete yet, but I plan on putting that on hold until I know exactly what I want to do with the power plant. If I build the engine myself, I will need to put 100% of my concentration into that. Of course I can spend days and hours researching engine stuff alone, so that's where I'm at right now. I am open to any ideas though, icluding favorite parts companies if you have them.

One thing I've been wishing for is Japanese after market parts, but it seems American and EU makes the best stuff for the K motors. I hope I run into someting and can make this car as "japanese" as possible with the HP requirements. I've been watching a lot of Mike Kojima on youtue and I really like the coating they put on their parts. May not be practical for the price though but it looks amazing.

Also Lotus thanks for that thread link. If sqeezing 30-50 more horses out of the NA engine is costly I will probably just aim for the 250-270 number. I'm not dying to go fast in a strait line just yet and it's not like 250-270 is gutless.

My Honda sports bike would have smoked that though so I'll probably look for a boost in the future. Revving the B motor in my Del sol reminds me a lot of my bike and gets me pumped up lol even though it's so slow now.
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Yeah, NA engines Mods have a higher cost/power Ratio compared to boosted ones. I've spent about 135 Euro/hp in my DAMPFHAMMER engine. Prototyping made it expensive. For less spec. Power, e.g. 145 hp/liter aftermarket parts are the way to go.
Very good parts came from Toda from Okayama, Check it out.
 
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