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Discussion Starter · #41 · (Edited)
Got the motor apart today.

Looks like I dodged the bullet on the valves - no apparent damage, no marks in pistons

having the machine shop check the valves anyway

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no sign of trash in the motor - only scored guides
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On the #4 cylinder oil consumption front - #4 piston, no sign of damage to it or rings
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Bore is a another story - pretty sure my problems stem from the original rust area seen below
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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Started transferring parts to the replacement short block

oil baffle, RSX oil pump, Blox baffle

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Oil pump chain, crank gear, tensioner, guide

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Oil cooler, oil pressure sender gauge adaptor

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overall mess

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Looks like I dodged the bullet on the valves - no apparent damage, no marks in pistons
These are great news @HusseinHolland!

having the machine shop check the valves anyway
That would be my 1st question to check them in detail by dismantling the valvetrain.

The last picture of post #41, what mess of scratches do I see there? Is this the liner or I am just too confused by assuming to see an eventual liner damage?
 

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overall mess
I wouldn't eat from the bottom, but it looks organized in most of the areas 😁. I like the view to the garden/wood? Looks so greeeeeen like here, not like those we see here from LA, AR, TX or so this season.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
These are great news @HusseinHolland!

That would be my 1st question to check them in detail by dismantling the valvetrain.

The last picture of post #41, what mess of scratches do I see there? Is this the liner or I am just too confused by assuming to see an eventual liner damage?
There is a gouge in the liner from the rust before original rebore to 87.5 back in 2019. It seems Darton sleeves are available (300-020), so perhaps that is a option, I'd like to save the block as a spare

another angle:
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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
I wouldn't eat from the bottom, but it looks organized in most of the areas 😁. I like the view to the garden/wood? Looks so greeeeeen like here, not like those we see here from LA, AR, TX or so this season.
Yes, we have much greenery here in NY - view past my Volvo pickup I made Feb-May this year

 

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There is a gouge in the liner from the rust before original rebore to 87.5 back in 2019.
That is a massive gouge of around 1-2 mm depth, isn't it? Was it in range of oil ring movement during operation? I am still confused about it, where it and how this thing could run...maybe I still have no glue where it located regarding liner height. Could you clarify this please? Looks like to be located at minimum 3/5 of the stroke distance seen from TDC.

It seems Darton sleeves are available (300-020), so perhaps that is a option, I'd like to save the block as a spare
Juup, the dry sleeve approach is here a better one as the wet sleeve thingy, which comes always with an higher risk of liner seating and loss of sealing capacity at the block-head-interface.

Yes, we have much greenery here in NY - view past my Volvo pickup I made Feb-May this year
Very nice green and a very practical Volvo pickup car. That backdoor is useful if you need something during the ride from the pickup section. Just nothing should be within the radius of the door opening ;). BTW practical, is it a AWD. Would be great when working in the woods, if you have some. Today this might a good invest to safe money from inflation and invest in material, which may have a good value also in future :). Anyway, I loved to go to work in the woods with my Dad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
That is a massive gouge of around 1-2 mm depth, isn't it? Was it in range of oil ring movement during operation? I am still confused about it, where it and how this thing could run...maybe I still have no glue where it located regarding liner height. Could you clarify this please? Looks like to be located at minimum 3/5 of the stroke distance seen from TDC.

Juup, the dry sleeve approach is here a better one as the wet sleeve thingy, which comes always with an higher risk of liner seating and loss of sealing capacity at the block-head-interface.

Very nice green and a very practical Volvo pickup car. That backdoor is useful if you need something during the ride from the pickup section. Just nothing should be within the radius of the door opening ;). BTW practical, is it a AWD. Would be great when working in the woods, if you have some. Today this might a good invest to safe money from inflation and invest in material, which may have a good value also in future :). Anyway, I loved to go to work in the woods with my Dad.
My recollection is that he said it (the worst rust gouge) was below the ring land, but I need to measure the bore distance & compare with the piston height at BTDC. This is what you could see @ BTDC in #4 before I removed the piston - the pattern looks like the large gouge area, except that it appears to be surface only in this pic. I need to confer with the machine shop on this. #4 bore was the only one that consumed oil & had a wet spark plug & piston crown when I tested the compression & leak down to find oil consumption cause last August.



I don't have AWD in the pickup, it is RWD with LSD. There are no woods roads in my area that I could drive on - we are on a ridge surrounded by large areas of State park lands, so much woods but no driving allowed.

EDIT: question for you - I reinstalled the water passage yesterday - and couldn't find this instruction at the time, so I put Hondabond over the entire mating surface (including around the ring, area on right in illustration), instead of just the indicated path. Now I'm wondering if that will be an issue. Any thoughts on that?

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was below the ring land, but I need to measure the bore distance & compare with the piston height at BTDC.
One of the lower pictures show that at BDC one of the big enough gouges is above the piston, which means at least blowby would include exhaust gases as well as suck oil into the chamber before the piston moves up to TDC. This would align with your observations.

it is RWD with LSD.
Thanks for your reply.

EDIT: question for you - I reinstalled the water passage yesterday - and couldn't find this instruction at the time, so I put Hondabond over the entire mating surface (including around the ring, area on right in illustration), instead of just the indicated path. Now I'm wondering if that will be an issue. Any thoughts on that?
I am confused now. The OEM design envisages here a O-Ring for the water passage bore. Didn't you see the O-Ring nut on the surface of the water pump mount bracket?
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
One of the lower pictures show that at BDC one of the big enough gouges is above the piston, which means at least blowby would include exhaust gases as well as suck oil into the chamber before the piston moves up to TDC. This would align with your observations.

I am confused now. The OEM design envisages here a O-Ring for the water passage bore. Didn't you see the O-Ring nut on the surface of the water pump mount bracket?
Dropped the block at the machine shop - hopefully he can sleeve it before he closes up the shop (he wants to retire soon)

The housing has three M10 bolts & one M10 nut - there is no o-ring nut. The area that they don't apply Hondabond is a closed cavity, I checked the spare block today, so it doesn't matter.

Did you delete yours for the Pierburg pump?

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Discussion Starter · #51 · (Edited)
I decided I needed to revisit the heater return pipe in the water extension housing. They way I had it, I needed a convoluted hose to make it work.
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Difficult to access the clamp, the hose has been squished between the engine mount bracket & the rad feed hose. It's held up, but I'm not happy with the layout.
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I made a copper section that allows for a basically straight section of heater hose to go from the body pipe to the engine. Took several go-arounds to get the offset just right so it could screw into the water extension without hitting the block. Silver soldered, not plumbing solder. The mount bracket has to be removed IF the pipe is being removed independent of the extension housing.
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much better fit overall
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sleeved the piping with thick shrink wrap, made a support bracket, just so when yanking on the heater hose, the pipe itself is not stressed. Had to use a flush bolt, to clear the rad feed pipe
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The other thing that has been an issue from the start is the AC compressor intake mount, and stress on the lines. I decided to beef up the main plate to make it more rigid, and add small shoulders on the outside that the compressor ears will sit on when bolted up. Still have to add some reinforcement to the bracket that goes on the intake ear.
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there is no o-ring nut.
There should be one on the water pump housing bracket or carrier (I miss just the right word). It's bracket/carrier of part C in the picture of this post: Car died - P0365 Code - CHAIN BROKE(!) | Page 3 | Honda / Acura K20a K24a Engine Forum and the O-Ring is part D of that picture.

Did you delete yours for the Pierburg pump?
I removed the water pump inclusively the part C of above's mentioned picture. I just reused the O-Ring and closed the blowby labyrinth complete incl. the blowby outlet beneath the water inlet with an plate, which has a nice 32 mm inlet hose connector. Hondabond also was used like you used to seal the blowby labyrinth, but I have used an O-Ring (part C in that picture) to seal the water inlet. Ah, what I need to add, once the part C was exchanged by the sealing plate, I've described above, the thermostat system has to be adapted for a standalone one out of the Land Rover shelf. They use a good sized part for the 2.5 Diesel engine, which has a pressure and temperature related opening mechanic, which I implemented also in my control strategy for e.g. WOT. Once WOT exceeds a certain duration I force the pump to full load too, to open that spring force sealed inlet to realize a pilot control for the ECT. This works out fine as with the temperature related opening the temperature fluctuation would be bigger. I have no glue how much it opens as it is still a spring, but ECT range-wise exactly how it need to be.

I made a copper section that allows for a basically straight section of heater hose to go from the body pipe to the engine.
Wow, nice hard soldering technology here. I never used this technology in a mobile application with that kind of vibration. Seems you are convinced about it's durability of the fire brazed connection, aren't you? Does the copper line has a thread connection to the block? I couldn't see it. Does the silver-like solder stand higher tensions?
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
There should be one on the water pump housing bracket or carrier (I miss just the right word). It's bracket/carrier of part C in the picture of this post: Car died - P0365 Code - CHAIN BROKE(!) | Page 3 | Honda / Acura K20a K24a Engine Forum and the O-Ring is part D of that picture.

I removed the water pump inclusively the part C of above's mentioned picture. I just reused the O-Ring and closed the blowby labyrinth complete incl. the blowby outlet beneath the water inlet with an plate, which has a nice 32 mm inlet hose connector. Hondabond also was used like you used to seal the blowby labyrinth, but I have used an O-Ring (part C in that picture) to seal the water inlet. Ah, what I need to add, once the part C was exchanged by the sealing plate, I've described above, the thermostat system has to be adapted for a standalone one out of the Land Rover shelf. They use a good sized part for the 2.5 Diesel engine, which has a pressure and temperature related opening mechanic, which I implemented also in my control strategy for e.g. WOT. Once WOT exceeds a certain duration I force the pump to full load too, to open that spring force sealed inlet to realize a pilot control for the ECT. This works out fine as with the temperature related opening the temperature fluctuation would be bigger. I have no glue how much it opens as it is still a spring, but ECT range-wise exactly how it need to be.

Wow, nice hard soldering technology here. I never used this technology in a mobile application with that kind of vibration. Seems you are convinced about it's durability of the fire brazed connection, aren't you? Does the copper line has a thread connection to the block? I couldn't see it. Does the silver-like solder stand higher tensions?
I see, I did put in a new o-ring (D) in illustration, Just Hondabond around the entire perimeter of C instead of just the left side (which includes the partition on the right of illustration, that is actually dead space, so I realized it makes no difference) - when you said o-ring nut, I thought you were talking about something like the oil cooler sandwich, which has a center nut to squish the o-ring.

OK. So. capping plates with fittings for water I/O & blow by to your catch can setup, got it.

The copper pipe has a 3/8" NPT fitting that screws into the extension I made. I went through my -AN fittings for the alternative of a flexible pipe section, the problem is, to achieve a 12mm ID, the fittings are all way too large for the space available. I would have to start from scratch and engineer a different solution & connection type to the extension. I may still have to do that down the road, time will tell.

The silver solder braise is superior in strength to standard pipe solder, yes. Since the fittings sleeve short sections of 12mm ID tube, most of the length is double wall. The centre of the elbows would be the weak point. I added the support plate towards the bottom, that the pipe is tied to, to help reduce vibration from the hose connection to the body pipe, but not prevent differing expansion/contraction that may occur between the metals of the housing, pipe & hose carrying the coolant.
 

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OK. So. capping plates with fittings for water I/O & blow by to your catch can setup, got it.
Yes, by the delete of the low load blowby line I had to increase the area for the WOT breather line to the oil seperator. I got to AN fittings welded on the valve cover like they use for turbo setups. Actually this runs fine, but at low load there are disadvantages for the ring sealing, as the differential pressure at low load of the ringland is lower and therefore the low load efficiency is a bit lower and the oil management around the rings changes a bit. Application depended, here it is a high load application, so it doesn't really matter.

The silver solder braise is superior in strength to standard pipe solder, yes.
Thanks for that information.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Head came back with confirmed NO valve train damage. So, I started putting the motor back together
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OEM gasket, head bolts checked for stretch, torqued to spec (3 stages)
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valve train reassembled
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chain, guides & lastly tensioner installed. Checked all markers
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Somewhat concerned about using the MLS exhaust gasket with this flange - I have pitting above #2 - I think it falls outside of the gasket crush area though
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Discussion Starter · #56 · (Edited)
Cleaned the front cover seal area, applied sealant (and triangular seal ring), installed cover, solenoid, torque mount arm, crank pulley. All torqued to spec.
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Runner ("injector base") gasket - I bought the RSX version ( water extension deleted), but I just cut down the new TSX one I had for this go around.
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Installed the pilot bearing 22103-PNA-003 & rear main seal 91214-RNB-A01
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made the installer tool using the old seal & a roll of duct tape, with a flat plate taped on the front. Pilot bearing went in with a 17mm socket
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checked depth all around (6.5mm) to ensure it's level
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flywheel installed, bolts cleaned, thread sealer applied & torqued (89ft/lb)
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cleaned the mating surface again, installed PP & disc, torqued (3 stages)
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transaxle reunited with the motor, started putting all the sensors & ancillaries back on
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sleeved the piping with thick shrink wrap, made a support bracket, just so when yanking on the heater hose, the pipe itself is not stressed. Had to use a flush bolt, to clear the rad feed pipe
Did you unsleeve the bypass coolant pipe for the anti corrosion painting?

Head came back with confirmed NO valve train damage. So, I started putting the motor back together
Wow, I am really surprised. That means in low speed cam there is no endangering valve-to-piston clearance, at least in 0° VTC position. That is good to know for a RAA block and RBC head. Thanks for sharing and I am very happy for you to read it.

Installed the pilot bearing 22103-PNA-003 & rear main seal 91214-RNB-A01
That is a great idea to renew it!

checked depth all around (6.5mm) to ensure it's level
With a swiss tool. We would say "...mit am eachth Schwiitzar Werkzuig" 😁.

I am really looking forward and to see the differences of the two headers 🤞. I will compare them to my forecast of resonance frequencies. Therefore, please ask the tuner to be precise with the lambda and VTC at WOT otherwise the comparison would be based on wrong assumptions 😇.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Did you unsleeve the bypass coolant pipe for the anti corrosion painting?
I think I painted it prior to sleeving, pretty sure I did - no pic though. I made sure to remove all traces of flux, as that can cause external corrosion. In any event, I have not experienced any aluminum/copper galvanic action - I do not use water in my cooling system, only Evans waterless.

Wow, I am really surprised. That means in low speed cam there is no endangering valve-to-piston clearance, at least in 0° VTC position. That is good to know for a RAA block and RBC head. Thanks for sharing and I am very happy for you to read it.
Indeed! And that was with higher compression Nippon Racing RL5 (oversize 87.5mm, though) pistons, also . This block has the stock RBB-00 pistons, with new rings. The bores only needed honing.

That is a great idea to renew it!
With a swiss tool. We would say "...mit am eachth Schwiitzar Werkzuig" 😁.

I am really looking forward and to see the differences of the two headers 🤞. I will compare them to my forecast of resonance frequencies. Therefore, please ask the tuner to be precise with the lambda and VTC at WOT otherwise the comparison would be based on wrong assumptions 😇.
No choice on those, different crank & block.😊

Can you elaborate on this for me?
 

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I do not use water in my cooling system, only Evans waterless.
Oha, need to deep dive what Evans Waterless coolant means on molecule basis. Beside that, Cooper is at +0.35 V while Aluminium is at -1.6 V, means almost 2 V difference in water. Anyway, both build very dense oxid layers calming any ion-based convective material transport, but diffusion based transport not. That means, if something vibrates good enough to destroy the oxid layer good enough there will be a chance for both. Normally you use a socalled sacrificial anode like Magnesium (-2.3 V) to keep the cooper feeded to lower the voltage potential.

And that was with higher compression Nippon Racing RL5 (oversize 87.5mm, though) pistons, also...
Do they have deeper valve relief depths?

Can you elaborate on this for me?
You mean what we would say here in my homeland? There is a well known advertise here in the German speaking area of Europe, it's about the Question who has invented the original Swiss Ricola bonbon. Everytime any other claims to be the inventor of those a small swiss guy jumps into the scene and remind the claimer on the original inventor and producer: Swiss has founded it. Only from Switzerland with 13 herbs". I've draw an analogous with the deepness measuring tool from Switzerland you have, which is only original done by Switzerland ;).

 
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