[rexthermal]

sup guys, i have a 1995 dx hatch, and brake and suspension is all stock except for omni power coilovers. I am looking to upgrading my brake setup since the stock setup is ok but would like it to be a lot more on point since i may autox a few times soon.

i have:
-full integra rear discs
-itr 1" abs master cylinder w brake booster
-russells stainless steel brake lines
-integra abs 40/40 valve

now this is where i am confused, ive read alot of honda tech articles, but im still confused on abs stuff.

i made a thread about the master cylinder and have heard i would just need to remake and flare my own lines for it to work i got that part...

the rear discs were abs, the 40/40 is abs and the itr master cylinder is abs, but my car is non abs, will i need a different proportional valve?

another question about brakes and rotors... i am planning on auto x a few times not a lot, what would be reliable setup rotor and brake wise...
hawk hps with blank rotors?

another issue im confused on is that i always thought 94+ integras front discs on a hatchback dont clear 13" rims true or false?

would love to see peoples knowledge on subject get some clear answers and even opinions on the matter thanks alot

 

[K20egcw]

I personally dont use ABS systems at all, I like to have control of weather the brakes lock up or not. No 13" rims wont fit on the front with integra spindles.

 

[kommon_sense]

It sounds like you still have the stock front 9.5" brakes. If so, I *WOULD NOT* recommend installing that 1" mc and booster.

The best thing you could do for braking would be to get something like gsr fronts.

Go with a blank rotor. slotted/drilled would just be for looks. There aren't many companies in the world that make rotors, so brand doesn't matter much... bendix, brembo, etc. They all work. I kind of like the blanks with the coated hubs for street use just becuase they look better, but I imagine you can do that yourself with high temp paint.

As for brake pads. I'm a fan of carbotech, but a lot of people like hawks as well. One thing I like about carbotechs is that they are rotor friendly and have light wheel dust that isn't corrosive, so won't damage your wheels.

 

[Slociviccoupe]

The honda proportioning valve isn't really much of a proportioning valve. If you plan to auto x then run a manual adjustable proportioning valve. If you have the stock dx knuckle with the 9.5 brakes, best upgrade for you is the s2k calipers and rotors, this bolts directly to the stock dx knuckle and gives you a light caliper, with 11.8" rotors. same as itr. Just have to redrill 4x100 lug pattern. Then run the gsr rear disk setup. the 1" mastercylinder and booster will be perfect for this combination.
Better person to ask is brake expert on here. He has helped me a lot with understanding what works and what doesn't. You will need a min of a 16" wheel though for 11.8" brakes.
Best of luck.

 

[rexthermal]

It sounds like you still have the stock front 9.5" brakes. If so, I *WOULD NOT* recommend installing that 1" mc and booster.

The best thing you could do for braking would be to get something like gsr fronts.

Go with a blank rotor. slotted/drilled would just be for looks. There aren't many companies in the world that make rotors, so brand doesn't matter much... bendix, brembo, etc. They all work. I kind of like the blanks with the coated hubs for street use just becuase they look better, but I imagine you can do that yourself with high temp paint.

As for brake pads. I'm a fan of carbotech, but a lot of people like hawks as well. One thing I like about carbotechs is that they are rotor friendly and have light wheel dust that isn't corrosive, so won't damage your wheels.

could you explain the WOULD NOT USE 1" master with stock front setup? pushing too much fluid? no pedal travel?

The honda proportioning valve isn't really much of a proportioning valve. If you plan to auto x then run a manual adjustable proportioning valve. If you have the stock dx knuckle with the 9.5 brakes, best upgrade for you is the s2k calipers and rotors, this bolts directly to the stock dx knuckle and gives you a light caliper, with 11.8" rotors. same as itr. Just have to redrill 4x100 lug pattern. Then run the gsr rear disk setup. the 1" mastercylinder and booster will be perfect for this combination.
Better person to ask is brake expert on here. He has helped me a lot with understanding what works and what doesn't. You will need a min of a 16" wheel though for 11.8" brakes.
Best of luck.

i would really like to keep my 13" lensos man i already have slicks on them and would like to keep them

 

[Mixwell]

could you explain the WOULD NOT USE 1" master with stock front setup? pushing too much fluid? no pedal travel?

yea too much fluid. it'll make your brakes lock up easily.

i would really like to keep my 13" lensos man i already have slicks on them and would like to keep them

what are you using slicks for? track? strip? daily?

 

[kommon_sense]

could you explain the WOULD NOT USE 1" master with stock front setup? pushing too much fluid? no pedal travel?

Exactly!. If you look at the cross sectional area, you can see that going to a 1" is a lot more fluid being pushed. So you loose pedal feel. Going from a 13/16" to 1" is a 51.5% increase in cross sectional area, so you would be pushing a lot more fluid and be much more prone to locking up.

Also, a recent issue of grassroots motorsports had an entire article on brake system upgrades and why the myth of upgrading the master cylinder often reduced brake performance.

i would really like to keep my 13" lensos man i already have slicks on them and would like to keep them

If you need brakes to fit under a 13" wheel, then you are severely limited. You can look at some wilwood setups, but you will have a small brake disk. I would just put a good high performance pad on your stock setup. It will get the job done for a drag setup.

 

[seek167]

what tires do u run cause brakes and tires go hand in hand
for auto cross i say go as lite as u can auto zone rotors are cheap and some good brake pads i use colbalt friction , u not really gonna kill ur brakes that u need some big brake kit . id stick with what u have , get good pads all around and great tires see how that works out

 

[Slociviccoupe]

kommon_sense is right, i hated my brakes when i went to the 1" mastercylinder. yes firmer pedal but more force needed. When I converted to manual brakes I actually went down a size to the 15/16 mastercylinder.
I contacted wilwood tech support, even thought not their product they are more than willing to help with pedal length, pedal travel, brake pedal force, mastercylinder sizing, ect. verry verry helpfull people.

 

[rexthermal]

yea too much fluid. it'll make your brakes lock up easily.




what are you using slicks for? track? strip? daily?

drag strip

Exactly!. If you look at the cross sectional area, you can see that going to a 1" is a lot more fluid being pushed. So you loose pedal feel. Going from a 13/16" to 1" is a 51.5% increase in cross sectional area, so you would be pushing a lot more fluid and be much more prone to locking up.

so dont install it if i have it?

Also, a recent issue of grassroots motorsports had an entire article on brake system upgrades and why the myth of upgrading the master cylinder often reduced brake performance.



If you need brakes to fit under a 13" wheel, then you are severely limited. You can look at some wilwood setups, but you will have a small brake disk. I would just put a good high performance pad on your stock setup. It will get the job done for a drag setup.

well my plan was to do integra rear discs, front and rear blank rotors, hawk hps pads, stainless steel brake lines, ate blue brake fluid, and the 1" itr master cylinder and brake booster, 40/40 valve

what tires do u run cause brakes and tires go hand in hand
for auto cross i say go as lite as u can auto zone rotors are cheap and some good brake pads i use colbalt friction , u not really gonna kill ur brakes that u need some big brake kit . id stick with what u have , get good pads all around and great tires see how that works out

planning on it

kommon_sense is right, i hated my brakes when i went to the 1" mastercylinder. yes firmer pedal but more force needed. When I converted to manual brakes I actually went down a size to the 15/16 mastercylinder.
I contacted wilwood tech support, even thought not their product they are more than willing to help with pedal length, pedal travel, brake pedal force, mastercylinder sizing, ect. verry verry helpfull people.

thanks guys i really appreciate all in put from everything in this thread great people great help goes a long way thanks alot


so you guys would recommend not installing the itr master cylinder, just sell it sux cause i just got it???

go with a integra master cylinder? non abs?

so far this is what i have

itr brake booster master cylinder
40/40 non abs
integra rear disc
4 blank rotors
front and rear hawk hps pads
russells steel braided lines
ate blue brake fluid

 

[Slociviccoupe]

didn't know you were doing a drag setup. I didn't like the pedal effort the 1" mastercylinder gave me. but if its a drag car having to stand on the brakes a ittle harder shouldn't be an issue.
but think of it this way, honda/ acura paired components together with tons of r&d. If you go with integra brakes all around then yes I would step up to the appropriate sized mastercylinder that was with that combination. abs or not.

if its a track car your building then might want to go manual brakes, no weight of the booster, no vacuum line to the intake manifold, and no agressive initial brake grab because of the booster.
there are some pictures of the billet aluminum plate I made to mount the master cylinder to the firewall for my manual brake setup, yes this is a dd street car.

http://k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=58793&page=4

 

[kommon_sense]

drag strip


so don't install it if I have it?

No, I would not install the 1" MC.

You also won't be gaining much by installing rear discs. Also the 40/40 prop valve is a bad way to go since you don't have the larger front calipers from the integra.

The thing to keep in mind here is that a prop valve has absolutely *NOTHING* to do with rear discs. It is there to maintaing a certain brake *BALANCE*. If you keep the small 9.5" fronts, then your car will *NOT* have the same balance as the car the 40/40 prop valve came from. You will likely push too much fluid to the front calipers. Add on top of that, the 1" mc, and I believe your car will have worse brakes than before all of the *upgrades*.

bottom line is that if you just grab the 10.3" rotors/booster/mc from a civic, then it will perform better than what your are currently considering, and you will have a combo that you know worked from the factory.

 

[Slociviccoupe]

keep in mind though, 13" lenso's hit the civic / integra calipers with 10.3" rotors.
Ive found the civic prop valve is nothing of the sort. its actually a slide valve designed to slide over of a line looses fluid. That way in a braking situation with a broken line your not pumping all the fluid out the hole. And at least have 3 other brakes working. It may serve as a prop valve to a point.
Im not understanding the too much line pressure to the fronts though. Most if not all race cars have full pressure to the fronts and a prop valve on the rear brakes.
Thats the way my break setup is. Front line off the master goes to a "t" then to each front caliper. the rear line goes to a wilwood prop valve, back to the rear of the car, to a "t" then to each caliper in the rear.

 

[Scourge]

You will need to reflare depending on which MC you get. A lot of people went with the 15/16" MC from an EF (I think it was a 4 door EX?) which bolts onto the EG master cylinder. Part number is 46100-SH4-A11. No need to reflare with this MC.
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=364783

Also, DX/CX knuckles I believe pulled the mounting points in by roughly 10mm. Usually different brackets hold the calipers out in 10mm increments so that can be counteracted. I can't recall which brackets were for what though.

Personally, I'd go with EX knuckes which I consider the "default" size as a lot of Hondas have bracket mounting points that distance.

As for reflaring lines, here's where I got my stuff...
http://store.fedhillusa.com/