[accordselux]

I've been going over a few ideas in my head, and this is what I have come up with.

Goal: street driven K24 EG hatch that retains basically stock characteristics, and doesn't lose too much fuel economy in the name of performance.

Acura TSX K24a2 (200hp 166tq)

Port and polish head
Regrind/new camshafts
Bored throttle body (not too drastic, maybe 3 or 4 mm over stock diameter)
Aftermarket IM (when available)
Blueprinting/balancing
Hondata KPro tuned

Custom header (modified hasport?) wrapped w/heatwrap
2.5" high flow cat (I want to retain emissions controls)
2.5" straight through exhaust system
Air intake (short ram) wrapped with heatwrap

New Civic Si 6 speed tranny
LSD
Lighter (not too light) flywheel
performance clutch

Will this get me to at least 200hp and 170tq to the wheels?

Any other suggestions?

 

[Lucid Moments]

That should get you where you want to be. I personally wouldn't bother with the PNP work on the head myself. These heads flow pretty darn good stock, and I'm not sure the PNP would make any difference unless you are running really agressive cams or ITBs, or both (nowhere close to stock characteristics)

 

[litterbox]

-I also wouldn't touch the head.
-I WOULD modify your vtc to 45degrees.
-I would get the best header I could.
-I would make sure the new SI tranny has the same mounting holes that the hasport/hybrid mounts are used for.

But that's just me. :silly:

What are you supposed to be blueprinting/balancing? A stock oem block? lol, what pistons/rods/crank?

 

[accordselux]

Someone on here told me that with a port and polish that the TSX head will flow comparably to the k20a2 head, which would be a plus.

Definitely getting the best header I can, i'm thinking custom unless a better option comes along.

I have time to pick through and make sure the new Si tranny bolts up, that's not a concern right now, if it doesnt i'll just put a Quaife in, but once again, I was hoping for OEM.

I know blueprinting is mostly old school, but I just mean having a builder make sure they're at their peak performance wise and within factory specs, and balancing the crank and maybe knife edging it....I'm not looking into aftermarket pistons/rods etc at this point, just trying to make all the power that I can out of mostly OEM parts...

 

[MJ23FE]

Well to Balance and blueprint the block, would require disassembly of the whole thing. Why not drop in stronger/lighter components while everything is on the table in pieces?
I too would love to use the k20z3 tranny. Reason being is that it has the TSX 6th gear stock which makes for awesome cruising even with use of the 5.062 FD.
-Jalal

 

[accordselux]

Would it be worth using aftermarket rods and pistons if I wanted to retain a stock bore?

I'm not looking to rev higher or anything, so I dont need lighter valves, and I plan on having the motor disassembled anyway.

Should I not stick with stock components, because I would see better gains with aftermarket? I was hoping to just improve the OEM internals instead of replacing them.


Yea that new tranny is sweet, that 6th gear will come in handy with freeway cruising, and a stock LSD will make power delivery much easier :up:

Up for suggestions

 

[Lucid Moments]

For what you say your power goals are there is no need to touch the block. Stock crank, rods, pistons will get you where you want to go with no problems.

Proper tuning, modified vtc mechanism (I should have caught that litterbox), good header and exhaust should get you where you say you want to go. Save the money on the other stuff, and spend it on good tuning. Your motor will run better, and safer.

 

[litterbox]

For 200/170 all you need is the k24a2 with I/H/E and modded vtc. That's it. That's over 200whp for sure. I made 191/166 on my k24a2 with i/h/e WITHOUT modded vtc. That's where the power is. It is absolutely essential.

 

[JERKRENCH]

cant wait to see the numbers

 

[accordselux]

what is this modified vtc mechanism?

I'm doubting it's advancing timing 45 degrees :wow:

What does this mean, is there a thread on this?

 

[nikos]

read this

http://www.hondata.com/tuning_the_tsx.html

 

[MJ23FE]

what is this modified vtc mechanism?

I'm doubting it's advancing timing 45 degrees :wow:

What does this mean, is there a thread on this?

http://vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=401733

Cam Timing Mechanism

The biggest gift Honda has given to tuners of the K-series engine is the VTC mechanism. Located on the end of the intake camshaft, the VTC mechanism, via hydraulics, allows 25 [crank] degrees of continuous movement on the TSX and 50 degrees on the RSX. For all you old school tuners lurking out there still changing the jets on your carburetors who think you have to junk the VTC mechanism and go with a good old fashioned cam timing wheel, think again. In every naturally aspirated K20A and K24 engine we have tuned, the intake cam needs to be rotated through 25-30 degrees between peak torque and peak power. For emissions, the ability for Honda to rotate the cam to zero at idle to dial out all overlap makes for a very clean engine with no need for EGR. EGR porting is in place on the head, but is blocked off.

25 degrees of cam movement is fine for a stock TSX engine, but completely inadequate for a modified engine with as little as race headers and intake. A stock engine needs no more than 20 degrees of cam moment on the high cam. A well modified setup needs no less than 25 degrees on the high cam. Take a good look at the modifications we made to the VTC mechanism. If you have a TSX, you are going to need these changes. Although you could probably purchase and bolt on an RSX VTC mechanism for 50 degrees of travel, there is less valve to piston clearance on the TSX pistons. Our measurements suggest 45 degrees maximum cam movement is much safer. Allowing the full 50 degrees movement leads to a greater risk of valve to piston contact should you accidentally mis-shift and over-rev.

VTC Cam timing mechanism


The biggest gift Honda has given to tuners of the K series engine is the VTC mechanism. Located on the end of the intake camshaft the VTC mechanism, via hydraulics allows 25 [crank] degrees of continuous movement on the TSX and 50 degrees on the RSX. For all you old school tuners lurking out there still changing the jets on your carburetors, who think you have to junk the VTC mechanism and go with a good old fashioned cam timing wheel, think again. In every naturally aspirated engine K20a and K24 engine we have tuned, the intake cam needs to be rotated through 25-30 degrees between peak torque and peak power. For emissions, the ability for Honda to rotate the cam to zero at idle to dial out all overlap makes for a very clean engine with no need for EGR. EGR porting is on place on the head but is blocked off.

25 degrees of cam movement is fine for a stock TSX engine but completely inadequate for modified engine with as little as race headers and intake. A stock engine needs no more than 20 degrees of cam moment on the high cam. A well modified setup needs no less than 25 degrees on the high cam. Take a good look at the modifications we made to the VTC mechanism. If you have a TSX you are going to need these changes. Although you could probably purchase and bolt on an RSX VTC mechanism for 50 degrees travel, there is less valve to piston clearance on the TSX pistons. Our measurements suggest 45 degrees maximum cam movement is much safer. Allowing the full 50 degrees movement leads to a greater risk of valve to piston contact should you accidentally mis-shift and over-rev.

TSX VTC mechanism showing material to be removed to increase the cam advance from 25-45 degrees


Engine characteristics.

The K24 is a long stroke engine. Naturally aspirated the engine's peak torque is around 6000 rpm falling off rapidly on the way to the redline. From about 6500 rpm up the power curve is fairly flat as a result. At 7500 rpm the piston speeds are about the same as that of a K20 at 8500 rpm, while trying to ingest about 15% more air through a head with similar airflow to a Type S. This means that the naturally aspirated K24 engine is difficult to get high RPM power from. Forced induction provides an excellent fix for this problem.

-Jalal

 

[DWCHKYPMP20]

i cant agree with not porting the head, im sure it flows good but what wrong with a ported head if you got the money? my plan is k24a2, port flow head, crower stg 2 3/4, hondata, custom header and modded vtc system. and possibly a euro R mani with bored throttle body. how does that sound?

 

[litterbox]

Of course porting the head is a + if you have the money. For his setup and his goals, it is simply not needed.

 

[accordselux]

Heh heh....I'm hoping to make 'AT LEAST' that...maybe I want 1000 hp with 500 ft. lbs of torque...sounds like a honda

But thanks for the help, this info is awesome and you've given me some real info to go along with my speculation

 

[02sik24a2]

I don't think you understand the TSX motor and what it was designed for.
It was built for torque and to tow around a 3300lbs passenger car. It wasn't designed for high revving which needs a cylinder head that flows like the TypeS or TypeR, so porting and polishing the cylinder head will hurt the low end torque to which the engine was designed for. Also why try to make it flow more air on the top end when the powerband of the TSX starts falling at 6500rpm....All this I want the TSX head to flow like the A2, doesn't make sense. PNP might give you 5whp done right. Reshaping the cylinder head is never going to make up up for the power lost from piston speed after 6500rpm. Torque moves the car from a stop and low speeds, in a EG would it should be fast enough, what they weight in around 2200lbs...
I am in a EP3 (2650lbs) and when I stay out of boost it pulls fine

I think you will hit the

 

[accordselux]

I know exactly what the K24 does, tahts why I picked it over the K20. I wanted actual torque with my car, compared to a wheezy D. I'm an accord owner, and my F23 makes 150hp and 156 torque, and definitely is not a high revver. I was looking for a solid torque curve that produces large (in honda terms) amounts of torque throughout the powerband in a light car...I definitely don't want a high revving K24 since the reason I want one is taht it makes its power throughout the band and doesnt require high revving to make decent torque.

I didnt know that porting and polishing the head would kill low end power, I just figured it would improve airflow throughout the powerband, if it is detrimental to the performance I want, I won't do it.

Thanks for telling me it would have negated my goals!