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Discussion Starter #61 (Edited)
Yes. I like that shine on the cable wheel. Did you paint it or just new ? 70 or 74?
It is a new K-Tuned 70mm butterfly with a 74mm ID taper. I am going to do my best to match the spring pressure of the K-Tuned to the OEM Type S TB & lubricate the spring shaft with Kroil.
 

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Discussion Starter #62
Woooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuw, that looks soooo tasty man! Now I am jealous, great that guys like you keep that time of car history alive 馃啓. I love these metallic deep bubbling crossplane crank and big displacement sound so much...wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. Great car, the red interior is so sexy, reminds me on my '79 Ford Capri, sort of Ford Mustang Pony Car in European size LOL :D, in red color with a brown velour leather and area rug interior, but that wasn't that sexy. Are you going to restore the chassis and the engine?
Thank you sir. I like how much you like the car. I would take you for a drive if you here and you could drive it.

Nothing is happening to the Goat. The value stays linear with top end sales to certain buyers. Just upgrade the exhaust.
 

Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Thank you sir. I like how much you like the car. I would take you for a drive if you here and you could drive it.
Thanks, I appreciate your offer. I was once in the USA, in 2002. It was around end of August on a scientific conference on CO2 sequestration to report about my research work for my doctoral thesis. My colleague and me added a week after the conference to learn FL a bit better to know. We started from Clearwater (conference basis) down to Key West over Everglade City. That town impressed me that much, the first was the lifted house, no ground level in the house, just pillars. A police car was in front of it beside the huge stairway to the first floor. The next what I remember was a white City Hall in the Copland Avenue. On the parking place there was a huge tree and in the shadow of it there rested a black, maybe '51 Buick Roadmaster, in perfect condition. It was an amazing moment I will never forget. It was like a film scene, so unreal real, it sat just there and was waiting while the evening sun was reflected by the City Hall wall and give the scenery a light orange coloring and the sun blinked through the by breezing warm wind moving Leafs of that tree. An amazing moment. Somewhere I have a photo of that awesome moment. An good Idea, I should dig that out...anyway, this was one moment of many, were I was amazed by that land. Especially the cars and engines impressed me. Beginning from the V8 Ford E-Series, which took me from Tampa to Clearwater, over many trucks, lories on the way down to Key West, the 3 axis having 40 foot boat trailer which was carried by a black colored modified Ford F 450 super duty and back on the east side to Palm Beach, where we saw a likely from year '54 Cadillac Eldorado in pure red on a live film set. It was just amazing. For the sound I have many Pony Car films, beginning from Bullit over Blues Brothers, Death Proof, Mad Max, ..., Only 60 Sekonds up to Vanishing Point. I really love that cars, but never did ride one.

Here in Europe we have beside the AMG's cross plane cranks of the M177/M178/M157 and so on mostly flat plane V8 cranks, which sound like a screeming I4 engine. So no need here for V8...LOL :D. Honda gives me almost all I need to hear, screaming I4 sound of up to 9,000 rpm. In some future we will build a 1 Liter race engine which revvs up to 12,000 rpm. That is my drug beside the cross plane thing. Maybe I should build a Yamaha YZF RN22 engine for a bycicle, it has actually the only I4-crossplane crank...


Amazing, like a modern V8 sound...

Nothing is happening to the Goat. The value stays linear with top end sales to certain buyers. Just upgrade the exhaust.
I see your point 馃啓
 

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Discussion Starter #65
Thanks, I appreciate your offer. I was once in the USA, in 2002. It was around end of August on a scientific conference on CO2 sequestration to report about my research work for my doctoral thesis. My colleague and me added a week after the conference to learn FL a bit better to know. We started from Clearwater (conference basis) down to Key West over Everglade City. That town impressed me that much, the first was the lifted house, no ground level in the house, just pillars. A police car was in front of it beside the huge stairway to the first floor. The next what I remember was a white City Hall in the Copland Avenue. On the parking place there was a huge tree and in the shadow of it there rested a black, maybe '51 Buick Roadmaster, in perfect condition. It was an amazing moment I will never forget. It was like a film scene, so unreal real, it sat just there and was waiting while the evening sun was reflected by the City Hall wall and give the scenery a light orange coloring and the sun blinked through the by breezing warm wind moving Leafs of that tree. An amazing moment. Somewhere I have a photo of that awesome moment. An good Idea, I should dig that out...anyway, this was one moment of many, were I was amazed by that land. Especially the cars and engines impressed me. Beginning from the V8 Ford E-Series, which took me from Tampa to Clearwater, over many trucks, lories on the way down to Key West, the 3 axis having 40 foot boat trailer which was carried by a black colored modified Ford F 450 super duty and back on the east side to Palm Beach, where we saw a likely from year '54 Cadillac Eldorado in pure red on a live film set. It was just amazing. For the sound I have many Pony Car films, beginning from Bullit over Blues Brothers, Death Proof, Mad Max, ..., Only 60 Sekonds up to Vanishing Point. I really love that cars, but never did ride one.

Here in Europe we have beside the AMG's cross plane cranks of the M177/M178/M157 and so on mostly flat plane V8 cranks, which sound like a screeming I4 engine. So no need here for V8...LOL :D. Honda gives me almost all I need to hear, screaming I4 sound of up to 9,000 rpm. In some future we will build a 1 Liter race engine which revvs up to 12,000 rpm. That is my drug beside the cross plane thing. Maybe I should build a Yamaha YZF RN22 engine for a bycicle, it has actually the only I4-crossplane crank...


Amazing, like a modern V8 sound...

I see your point 馃啓
Glad to hear you made it over here to the US. Wow you took me there back in time with your post, nice memory. Thank you for sharing, I enjoyed reading it very much. There are some nice old school builds in the US and there are many car groups that meet up and drive the Oldies, I love seeing the bridge between the Old and the Young take place. What is cool is the Old Guys know about Honda's progression in all types of racing. The stories from the drag strip make it far when an All Motor I-4 is running 8-9 second 1/4's trapping 150-160mph and " Honda's make power " - is the quote them guys say. I would say since the year 2000, Honda's progression was not going to stop and it was obvious.

It is kind of funny over here people know about BMW, Audi, Benz, but not really about them and how they are made and what they are actually capable of. We that go to the road course know exactly what those cars do and how in factory trim are basically ready to race minus the tires. The other Americans that know are boosting the shit out of them and modding them just like any other. Here in the US the roadway systems are endless, there are so many mountainous roads that feed endless apexes and unoccupied roads. Then there are roads with endless straights. It is unlike anything I have ever seen.

In 1994, I went to the Far East. Japan, Hong Kong, Thailand, Singapore, for a one month vacation. It blew my mind to see how the other side of the world worked and looked. I quickly noticed the US was China's bitch on the retail and production industry, as if we bought all of their pawn shop and unwanted technologies making us 5-10 years behind them. Actually it was sad to see this when I came back to the US. I tried to explain it to people so got it and most didn't care. There is no denying from me that I have a healthy obsession with Honda's I-4 engines.


The I-4 is the closest thing we have over here to the F1 sound and Honda dominates that market and scene. Which is plenty fine with me. I am all about the Germany cars
 

Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Glad to hear you made it over here to the US. Wow you took me there back in time with your post, nice memory. Thank you for sharing, I enjoyed reading it very much.
Thanks, even with my uneven writing...I appreciate that 馃啓.

There are some nice old school builds in the US and there are many car groups that meet up and drive the Oldies, I love seeing the bridge between the Old and the Young take place. What is cool is the Old Guys know about Honda's progression in all types of racing. The stories from the drag strip make it far when an All Motor I-4 is running 8-9 second 1/4's trapping 150-160mph and " Honda's make power " - is the quote them guys say. I would say since the year 2000, Honda's progression was not going to stop and it was obvious.
That's great if one look also over his own pot what's going on elsewhere. The Quarter Mile is a perfect place for that, where different kind of displacement and chassis fight for the best acceleration time. Here in Europe we have also those meets where the guys gather to show what's up to date with the old cars from the 60'ies till 90'ies. In my homeland there is a old hill climb track, banned for racing since '86, but there is every two years a Classic race where cars older then 30 years allowed to race one day. The winner is not the fastest, it is the one who did the best guessing of his track time to prevent the old cars to get riden into the wall or sky (up to 150 m kind of free fall possible just half a meter beside the street). It's amazing, you can see there from Fiat's BEAST, an amazing displacement monster with 4 cylinders 190x250 (= 28,353 ccm) up to a V8 Ford Capri from the DTM (German Touring Masters) from the 80'ies.


Didn't find a better video without German comment. To see more of the track maybe this gives a better insight.


BTW, best time ever on this track is 03:08,26. So this was a medium fast ride. There a few guys here I know which are really affected by the crossplane V8's. One of them I learned to know is running a Ford Pickup from the 60'ies with an 550 ci NA engine, pushing around 1100 hp down the track on alcohol. He still tunes his carburetor nozzles with spark plug analysis, like some of us learned it in the early 12th-16th when tuning their 50 ccm 2 stroke bicycles. Quite cracy, that displacement monster runs track times like a highly modified FWD Civic. In Europe there is only one glued track in England available. So track times differ from those measured in the US, especially for the FWD's.

A friend and me started some tuning projects based on VAG engine/cars. I only know a few things about the engine codes, setup's, durabilities. My friend is about 20 years doing those engines, but he know nothing real of essence, beside Honda has the better engines LOL :D, about the B- and K-series engine. I think having real knowhow about different kind of engines need some effort to learn, which is difficult if you are focused and occupied by one series or engine type. Finally the are somewhere similar in the functions and physics, just the part stuff and durability and performance and...has to be learned :D if someone wants to be a wizzard on many of them. So I pull my hat for those like you who have seen over their own pot and learned their stuff outside the edge of it.

Here in the US the roadway systems are endless, there are so many mountainous roads that feed endless apexes and unoccupied roads. Then there are roads with endless straights. It is unlike anything I have ever seen.
I always wanted to drive down the Road 1 or Highway one from North to South. A lot of engine guys life on that road or nearby of it in some kind of, even some out of the K20a.org :). Unfortunately it didn't happen yet. Too less money for that...

In 1994, I went to the Far East. Japan, Hong Kong, Thailand, Singapore, for a one month vacation. It blew my mind to see how the other side of the world worked and looked. I quickly noticed the US was China's bitch on the retail and production industry, as if we bought all of their pawn shop and unwanted technologies making us 5-10 years behind them. Actually it was sad to see this when I came back to the US. I tried to explain it to people so got it and most didn't care. There is no denying from me that I have a healthy obsession with Honda's I-4 engines.
Very nice journey. I never was there. Japan is a place with very interesting people and engines, to meet one of these racing companies like TODA or SPOON would be cool, take a ride with the Shinkansen Train, ...would be nice. Anyway you are right, the technology transfer from one country into another country because of labor costs has effects on many things. 10 years ago China copied many technologies, without and with permission, today they rule many markets with their cheaper products. Europe is still exporting technology and products to China, as it is the biggest consumer market on earth actually. But it won't take long than the direction changes, the more electronics will come the more mass products we will find on the market cheap. An example, we were looking for a closed loop control hardware for our flow bench, we bought cheap stuff from Ebay (China). After it got smoked we changed to a US hardware (LapJack) and German SW to control it. Much more serious stuff, still economic level, but it does what we expect from them. Buy local is something I've learned from my wife, which buys food only from locals. I do it as far as possible with my stuff to and it is hard if you get it for an 10th of the price elsewhere, but local companies has to be supported. Otherwise we will lose them. Sometimes it is really hard, especially if you compete yourself with other country products. I like your approach 馃啓.
 

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Discussion Starter #67
Mr. LotusElise check this out brother.


This is the Radical SR8 at VIR in my home state of Virginia. VIR (Virginia International Raceway) is one of the United States best road course racing establishments. At VIR, the Ariel Atom is solely made there and tested there as well. VIR has been coined "the Nurburgring of the United States" in which once the entire track is opened up it offers 4-1/2+ min lap times. I have been taking NASA/SCAA road course classes there since 2005. Doing a 1:44.4 second lap time on what is call the "full course" or the outer ban section is fast. Once the inside tracks are opened up and all tie together, the "Nurburging of the United States" lap sections come together.

One of my great friends, tuner, and professional racer just sold his Yellow "Duck" 2001 Acura Integra Type R that spent many years there tearing up VIR and drawing many other drivers to a walk over to DC2-R to see why it just spanked them out on track. The DC2-R has a JRSC K20a2 swap w/ IPS SC Cams, Eibach Valvesprings, Ti retainers, custom Hytech header, 3" Thermal exhaust, 3" CAI, Pyrometers installed, Brembo BBK w/ Carbotech Pads made for a 3500lb. car, custom Tein coilovers w/ insane spring rates, custom muilt-link front adjustable camber arms, and an endless mod list that cripples most bank accounts. Please note while watching this video of the Radical, one the back straight the 01 DC2-R is hitting the same MPH as the Radical with a 200lb. passenger. I cannot explain the shear pleasure I felt each time I was driving the car or riding shotgun in the car hitting those speeds on the back straight at VIR, in which no one believed us that the car was pushing past 140 mph on the back straight. An on-board cam had to be installed in order to prove going past 140 mph, not to mention hitting 160mph then quickly triple downshifting to enter the downhill roller coaster S turns.

This is some info on the Radical SR8 in case you were not aware. The SR8 is a more extreme version intended for track use but can be registered for the road. The SR8 also features one of the largest engines Radical has ever put in their cars, with the 2700 cc RPE RPX V8 constructed by combining elements of Suzuki inline-4s, and producing 430 horsepower (321 kW). A further variant, known as the SR8LM, increased the engine to 2800 cc and brought power output to 455 hp (339 kW). In August 2009 Michael Vergers, driving an SR8LM, set the new lap record (6 minutes, 48 seconds) for a road legal production car at the N眉rburgring Nordschleife circuit.[4][5] This record was beaten by the 991 generation Porsche 911 GT2 in September 2017 with a time of 6:47.25.[6]

The SR8 has the most impressive specifications of any Radical model, bar the RXC Turbo, Turbo 500 and the race cars. It is capable of 0鈥60 in 2.7 seconds, 178 miles per hour, and a 2.5 g's of lateral acceleration.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
Thanks, even with my uneven writing...I appreciate that 馃啓.

That's great if one look also over his own pot what's going on elsewhere. The Quarter Mile is a perfect place for that, where different kind of displacement and chassis fight for the best acceleration time. Here in Europe we have also those meets where the guys gather to show what's up to date with the old cars from the 60'ies till 90'ies. In my homeland there is a old hill climb track, banned for racing since '86, but there is every two years a Classic race where cars older then 30 years allowed to race one day. The winner is not the fastest, it is the one who did the best guessing of his track time to prevent the old cars to get riden into the wall or sky (up to 150 m kind of free fall possible just half a meter beside the street). It's amazing, you can see there from Fiat's BEAST, an amazing displacement monster with 4 cylinders 190x250 (= 28,353 ccm) up to a V8 Ford Capri from the DTM (German Touring Masters) from the 80'ies.


Didn't find a better video without German comment. To see more of the track maybe this gives a better insight.


BTW, best time ever on this track is 03:08,26. So this was a medium fast ride. There a few guys here I know which are really affected by the crossplane V8's. One of them I learned to know is running a Ford Pickup from the 60'ies with an 550 ci NA engine, pushing around 1100 hp down the track on alcohol. He still tunes his carburetor nozzles with spark plug analysis, like some of us learned it in the early 12th-16th when tuning their 50 ccm 2 stroke bicycles. Quite cracy, that displacement monster runs track times like a highly modified FWD Civic. In Europe there is only one glued track in England available. So track times differ from those measured in the US, especially for the FWD's.

A friend and me started some tuning projects based on VAG engine/cars. I only know a few things about the engine codes, setup's, durabilities. My friend is about 20 years doing those engines, but he know nothing real of essence, beside Honda has the better engines LOL :D, about the B- and K-series engine. I think having real knowhow about different kind of engines need some effort to learn, which is difficult if you are focused and occupied by one series or engine type. Finally the are somewhere similar in the functions and physics, just the part stuff and durability and performance and...has to be learned :D if someone wants to be a wizzard on many of them. So I pull my hat for those like you who have seen over their own pot and learned their stuff outside the edge of it.

I always wanted to drive down the Road 1 or Highway one from North to South. A lot of engine guys life on that road or nearby of it in some kind of, even some out of the K20a.org :). Unfortunately it didn't happen yet. Too less money for that...

Very nice journey. I never was there. Japan is a place with very interesting people and engines, to meet one of these racing companies like TODA or SPOON would be cool, take a ride with the Shinkansen Train, ...would be nice. Anyway you are right, the technology transfer from one country into another country because of labor costs has effects on many things. 10 years ago China copied many technologies, without and with permission, today they rule many markets with their cheaper products. Europe is still exporting technology and products to China, as it is the biggest consumer market on earth actually. But it won't take long than the direction changes, the more electronics will come the more mass products we will find on the market cheap. An example, we were looking for a closed loop control hardware for our flow bench, we bought cheap stuff from Ebay (China). After it got smoked we changed to a US hardware (LapJack) and German SW to control it. Much more serious stuff, still economic level, but it does what we expect from them. Buy local is something I've learned from my wife, which buys food only from locals. I do it as far as possible with my stuff to and it is hard if you get it for an 10th of the price elsewhere, but local companies has to be supported. Otherwise we will lose them. Sometimes it is really hard, especially if you compete yourself with other country products. I like your approach 馃啓.
Thank you for the good information you supply K20a.org with. I really am thankful for your efforts and dedication to providing good information. I put together a little post for you of a neat build being raced in my home state of Virginia. I hope you like it. I also sent you a video of a Lotus with a turbo K24.
 

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Mr. LotusElise check this out brother.


This is the Radical SR8 at VIR in my home state of Virginia. VIR (Virginia International Raceway) is one of the United States best road course racing establishments. At VIR, the Ariel Atom is solely made there and tested there as well. VIR has been coined "the Nurburgring of the United States" in which once the entire track is opened up it offers 4-1/2+ min lap times. I have been taking NASA/SCAA road course classes there since 2005. Doing a 1:44.4 second lap time on what is call the "full course" or the outer ban section is fast. Once the inside tracks are opened up and all tie together, the "Nurburging of the United States" lap sections come together.

One of my great friends, tuner, and professional racer just sold his Yellow "Duck" 2001 Acura Integra Type R that spent many years there tearing up VIR and drawing many other drivers to a walk over to DC2-R to see why it just spanked them out on track. The DC2-R has a JRSC K20a2 swap w/ IPS SC Cams, Eibach Valvesprings, Ti retainers, custom Hytech header, 3" Thermal exhaust, 3" CAI, Pyrometers installed, Brembo BBK w/ Carbotech Pads made for a 3500lb. car, custom Tein coilovers w/ insane spring rates, custom muilt-link front adjustable camber arms, and an endless mod list that cripples most bank accounts. Please note while watching this video of the Radical, one the back straight the 01 DC2-R is hitting the same MPH as the Radical with a 200lb. passenger. I cannot explain the shear pleasure I felt each time I was driving the car or riding shotgun in the car hitting those speeds on the back straight at VIR, in which no one believed us that the car was pushing past 140 mph on the back straight. An on-board cam had to be installed in order to prove going past 140 mph, not to mention hitting 160mph then quickly triple downshifting to enter the downhill roller coaster S turns.

This is some info on the Radical SR8 in case you were not aware. The SR8 is a more extreme version intended for track use but can be registered for the road. The SR8 also features one of the largest engines Radical has ever put in their cars, with the 2700 cc RPE RPX V8 constructed by combining elements of Suzuki inline-4s, and producing 430 horsepower (321 kW). A further variant, known as the SR8LM, increased the engine to 2800 cc and brought power output to 455 hp (339 kW). In August 2009 Michael Vergers, driving an SR8LM, set the new lap record (6 minutes, 48 seconds) for a road legal production car at the N眉rburgring Nordschleife circuit.[4][5] This record was beaten by the 991 generation Porsche 911 GT2 in September 2017 with a time of 6:47.25.[6]

The SR8 has the most impressive specifications of any Radical model, bar the RXC Turbo, Turbo 500 and the race cars. It is capable of 0鈥60 in 2.7 seconds, 178 miles per hour, and a 2.5 g's of lateral acceleration.
Thank you for the good information you supply K20a.org with. I really am thankful for your efforts and dedication to providing good information. I put together a little post for you of a neat build being raced in my home state of Virginia. I hope you like it. I also sent you a video of a Lotus with a turbo K24.
I second that ! I always feel like I learn something I never would have otherwise with the posts from @LotusElise . Much appreciated to anyone who takes the time to spread the wealth of knowledge.
 

Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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...Doing a 1:44.4 second lap time on what is call the "full course" or the outer ban section is fast. Once the inside tracks are opened up and all tie together, the "Nurburging of the United States" lap sections come together.
Wow, that is amazing. I really liked to see that race car flying around the circuit. It is impressing to see how stable the chassis takes it up with Newton's 2nd law, beside the front directed hunger to accelerate it. Wow...

...The DC2-R has a JRSC K20a2 swap w/ IPS SC Cams, Eibach Valvesprings, Ti retainers, custom Hytech header, 3" Thermal exhaust, 3" CAI, Pyrometers installed, Brembo BBK w/ Carbotech Pads made for a 3500lb. car, custom Tein coilovers w/ insane spring rates, custom muilt-link front adjustable camber arms, and an endless mod list that cripples most bank accounts. Please note while watching this video of the Radical, one the back straight the 01 DC2-R is hitting the same MPH as the Radical with a 200lb. passenger.
A boosted Honda takes it up with an perfect race car. That's Honda and it's Honda guys...just wow!

This is some info on the Radical SR8 in case you were not aware. The SR8 is a more extreme version intended for track use but can be registered for the road. The SR8 also features one of the largest engines Radical has ever put in their cars, with the 2700 cc RPE RPX V8 constructed by combining elements of Suzuki inline-4s, and producing 430 horsepower (321 kW). A further variant, known as the SR8LM, increased the engine to 2800 cc and brought power output to 455 hp (339 kW). In August 2009 Michael Vergers, driving an SR8LM, set the new lap record (6 minutes, 48 seconds) for a road legal production car at the N眉rburgring Nordschleife circuit.[4][5] This record was beaten by the 991 generation Porsche 911 GT2 in September 2017 with a time of 6:47.25.[6]
Yeah, those cylinder heads are a very good basis for high revving small displacements. My colleague, the one were I build the engine stuff, has a project of a Yamaha head on a 1 liter block, should hit the 200 hp mark. The company Synergy also builds nice V8 with those heads. Maybe Radical is using those. I know a FB friend who run a Bonneville car with the 2-Liter version, made 460 [email protected] rpm. Those heads have an amazing feeding capability at high revvs, while the bore is still small. The key is to lower the displacement feeded with each valve, equals to increase the cylinder numbers. This gives a lower stroke (= lower mechanical stress at higher engine speeds) and a lower displacement feeded by the valves. So I think the Radical engine setup is still a medium setup to give the engines a better durability. What do you guys think?
 

Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Thank you for the good information you supply K20a.org with. I really am thankful for your efforts and dedication to providing good information. I put together a little post for you of a neat build being raced in my home state of Virginia. I hope you like it. I also sent you a video of a Lotus with a turbo K24.
Thanks I really liked and enjoyed reading it. Regarding the video I need to check it out.
 

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Discussion Starter #73
Wow, that is amazing. I really liked to see that race car flying around the circuit. It is impressing to see how stable the chassis takes it up with Newton's 2nd law, beside the front directed hunger to accelerate it. Wow...

A boosted Honda takes it up with an perfect race car. That's Honda and it's Honda guys...just wow!

Yeah, those cylinder heads are a very good basis for high revving small displacements. My colleague, the one were I build the engine stuff, has a project of a Yamaha head on a 1 liter block, should hit the 200 hp mark. The company Synergy also builds nice V8 with those heads. Maybe Radical is using those. I know a FB friend who run a Bonneville car with the 2-Liter version, made 460 [email protected] rpm. Those heads have an amazing feeding capability at high revvs, while the bore is still small. The key is to lower the displacement feeded with each valve, equals to increase the cylinder numbers. This gives a lower stroke (= lower mechanical stress at higher engine speeds) and a lower displacement feeded by the valves. So I think the Radical engine setup is still a medium setup to give the engines a better durability. What do you guys think?
That Radical doing 155mph in the Uphill Esses just after the Nissan bridge makes my ass turn coal to diamonds. Like I said I use this road course and that part of the track at that speed is insane.

The Bonnneville 2.0L [email protected] rpm must be a pleasant heavenly sound. Do you know if Honda and Yamaha have ever teamed up projects? Do you think there is something to learn from Yamaha builds we can transfer over to our Honda builds - like intake design, IM design, fuel systems, etc.?
 

Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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...That Radical doing 155mph in the Uphill Esses just after the Nissan bridge makes my ass turn coal to diamonds. Like I said I use this road course and that part of the track at that speed is insane.
Very nice phrase to know "makes my ass turn coal to diamonds!". It has a strong picture attitude and everyone get an intense idea of what you felt.

...Do you know if Honda and Yamaha have ever teamed up projects? Do you think there is something to learn from Yamaha builds we can transfer over to our Honda builds - like intake design, IM design, fuel systems, etc.?
No I don't know it unfortunately. As Japanese guys are proud of their capabilities and achievements and have a strong group relation I don't believe this did ever happen. But this just my observation and conclusion out of that. Yamaha has a strong and historical built competence and culture for high end engine heads. This lead to a responsibility for the development to be the best in the market as development goal. If you have hundreds of specified goals for a cylinder head development and many of them are just products of clearance, emission, reliability there is not too much space for high end production and high end ports. Look at VAG. Awful head ports for an mass market, completely clearance and fabrication driven designs. Yamaha doesn't have that strong attitude for fabrication cost, clearances savings but a stronger performance goal. Therefore you see what also VW guys could do but likely never did for puplic eyes, they made a straight intake port with an steep angle to force and focus on highest VE at higher engine speeds and higher loads, for that with lower interest in emission relevant low speed part load situations. If you look at their Yamaha R1 head, the inclined valve angle is very small, therefore the combustion chamber in the head is very small. They integrated 5 valves into that small 74 mm bore or 4 into the 78 mm bore head. This gives you an big cross section area for the valves, even at this low inclined valve angle (smaller inclined angle = smaller area for valve cross section). The straight and steep intake helps especially the VE build up in the higher engine speeds and load sections of the map, down low you shouldn't look so deep into it 馃槈. These factors are the basis for the performance, no VW or Honda Car market engine will ever get because of hood clearance. With the uneven or odd igniton firing the R1 engine has an amazing capability to come from down low up to the right corner with very high mean VE numbers. The uneven ign. firing of the cross plane crank helps to scavenge better then the plane crank design because of the uneven and partly bigger durations between two firings to come out of the mood of lower engine speeds. With that came up and downs...you know maybe why it is the only I4 cross plane, it works out good at lower emissions, higher engine speeds and load. Down low, not so good.

What Honda did is for me the real champion work. The K-series head didn't have the same freedom Yamaha had in the spec paper with the R1 head. Under hood clearance forces the head ports to become different, as well as the emission ones. The flat port forces a more roller flow design in the chamber, which supports the combustion at lower engine speeds where more residual gases slow it down and the squish doesn't work that effective. Bigger inclined valve angle of 51掳 (also because of the clearance demand of the iVTEC system), a strong bended port with all it's flow consequences lead to a more typical car engine design. Under these circumstances these heads are amazing, good enough specific low lift flow and very good specific high lift flow values. No head on the market at this valve size can compete with it. They did an amazing job. Just for your comparison, a modified I4 TFSI head, without flaps, flows 0,26 cfm/mm虏 and the OEM untouched K20 RSP head 0,31 cfm/mm虏 at the same valve lift. That's night and day.

What can we learn from this? Beside my colleague is building a 1 Liter VAG block-Yamaha head Frankenstein to aim for 200 hp/Liter...he knows his VAG stuff is...psssst...maybe this. The difference of those is seated in the specifications and applications they went into. A technology transfer makes sense in some aspects, when you e.g. build a race car. Further placed injectors, variable intake runner length concepts, consideration of combustion chamber design and so on. But all that depends on budget, application and what effort you want to put in. The main aspect when going from a good basis like the K-series is breathing of the engine: at scavenging and ramming phase of the intake cycle. This is a strongly engine speed related task, here are the K-series and the Yamaha R1 engine far from each other. The one get cut at 8600 rpm the other at 12500 rpm. For me as an engine designer concepts are better transferable then specific design aspects as design aspects changes much with application and speed limits. Just a example, while a NASCAR valve seat of 55掳 with an higher valve-throat-ratio did really work well the same is not true for a 4 valve head which speeds up to 20,000 rpm. A Formula 1 V12 engine engine I know had just around 40掳 valve seats and a lower valve-thorat-ratio. Different design aspects, even different valve seat concepts for a similar task? By far not, totally different applications and requirements giving us totally different design aspects! I am sure if we could have a deeper look into that we would see many ways lead to Rome. So my fraction of outcome of this is, Honda did a great job for their application task and none I know comes near to that in quality, performance and durability. Yamaha did also a great job, but under different requirements. I am not sure who thick the pullover must be for others if Honda would have the same requirements 馃槈.

Having no bends may help anyway to increase VE, but it the working speed range we work it doesn't matter, neither on intake, nor and over more on exhaust. If you look at the Yamaha head of the Toyota 2ZZ-GE engine, it uses a major amount of the R1 technology and bended the IM runners accordingly. The 2ZZ-GE eninge is good for the bore size it has, but even there Honda takes it all. BTW, Toyota had always a top series engine with Yamaha heads and like with e.g. the 2UR-GSE engine even the complete engine. They definitly teamed up.
 

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Very nice phrase to know "makes my ass turn coal to diamonds!". It has a strong picture attitude and everyone get an intense idea of what you felt.

No I don't know it unfortunately. As Japanese guys are proud of their capabilities and achievements and have a strong group relation I don't believe this did ever happen. But this just my observation and conclusion out of that. Yamaha has a strong and historical built competence and culture for high end engine heads. This lead to a responsibility for the development to be the best in the market as development goal. If you have hundreds of specified goals for a cylinder head development and many of them are just products of clearance, emission, reliability there is not too much space for high end production and high end ports. Look at VAG. Awful head ports for an mass market, completely clearance and fabrication driven designs. Yamaha doesn't have that strong attitude for fabrication cost, clearances savings but a stronger performance goal. Therefore you see what also VW guys could do but likely never did for puplic eyes, they made a straight intake port with an steep angle to force and focus on highest VE at higher engine speeds and higher loads, for that with lower interest in emission relevant low speed part load situations. If you look at their Yamaha R1 head, the inclined valve angle is very small, therefore the combustion chamber in the head is very small. They integrated 5 valves into that small 74 mm bore or 4 into the 78 mm bore head. This gives you an big cross section area for the valves, even at this low inclined valve angle (smaller inclined angle = smaller area for valve cross section). The straight and steep intake helps especially the VE build up in the higher engine speeds and load sections of the map, down low you shouldn't look so deep into it 馃槈. These factors are the basis for the performance, no VW or Honda Car market engine will ever get because of hood clearance. With the uneven or odd igniton firing the R1 engine has an amazing capability to come from down low up to the right corner with very high mean VE numbers. The uneven ign. firing of the cross plane crank helps to scavenge better then the plane crank design because of the uneven and partly bigger durations between two firings to come out of the mood of lower engine speeds. With that came up and downs...you know maybe why it is the only I4 cross plane, it works out good at lower emissions, higher engine speeds and load. Down low, not so good.

What Honda did is for me the real champion work. The K-series head didn't have the same freedom Yamaha had in the spec paper with the R1 head. Under hood clearance forces the head ports to become different, as well as the emission ones. The flat port forces a more roller flow design in the chamber, which supports the combustion at lower engine speeds where more residual gases slow it down and the squish doesn't work that effective. Bigger inclined valve angle of 51掳 (also because of the clearance demand of the iVTEC system), a strong bended port with all it's flow consequences lead to a more typical car engine design. Under these circumstances these heads are amazing, good enough specific low lift flow and very good specific high lift flow values. No head on the market at this valve size can compete with it. They did an amazing job. Just for your comparison, a modified I4 TFSI head, without flaps, flows 0,26 cfm/mm虏 and the OEM untouched K20 RSP head 0,31 cfm/mm虏 at the same valve lift. That's night and day.

What can we learn from this? Beside my colleague is building a 1 Liter VAG block-Yamaha head Frankenstein to aim for 200 hp/Liter...he knows his VAG stuff is...psssst...maybe this. The difference of those is seated in the specifications and applications they went into. A technology transfer makes sense in some aspects, when you e.g. build a race car. Further placed injectors, variable intake runner length concepts, consideration of combustion chamber design and so on. But all that depends on budget, application and what effort you want to put in. The main aspect when going from a good basis like the K-series is breathing of the engine: at scavenging and ramming phase of the intake cycle. This is a strongly engine speed related task, here are the K-series and the Yamaha R1 engine far from each other. The one get cut at 8600 rpm the other at 12500 rpm. For me as an engine designer concepts are better transferable then specific design aspects as design aspects changes much with application and speed limits. Just a example, while a NASCAR valve seat of 55掳 with an higher valve-throat-ratio did really work well the same is not true for a 4 valve head which speeds up to 20,000 rpm. A Formula 1 V12 engine engine I know had just around 40掳 valve seats and a lower valve-thorat-ratio. Different design aspects, even different valve seat concepts for a similar task? By far not, totally different applications and requirements giving us totally different design aspects! I am sure if we could have a deeper look into that we would see many ways lead to Rome. So my fraction of outcome of this is, Honda did a great job for their application task and none I know comes near to that in quality, performance and durability. Yamaha did also a great job, but under different requirements. I am not sure who thick the pullover must be for others if Honda would have the same requirements 馃槈.

Having no bends may help anyway to increase VE, but it the working speed range we work it doesn't matter, neither on intake, nor and over more on exhaust. If you look at the Yamaha head of the Toyota 2ZZ-GE engine, it uses a major amount of the R1 technology and bended the IM runners accordingly. The 2ZZ-GE eninge is good for the bore size it has, but even there Honda takes it all. BTW, Toyota had always a top series engine with Yamaha heads and like with e.g. the 2UR-GSE engine even the complete engine. They definitly teamed up.
Brother thank you for that wonderful read and information.
 

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BTW, one of the best Yamaha Car engine is the 1LR-GUE, a street legal V10-4.8 Liter ready to race engine with titan rods, forged pistons, ITB's, dry sump...revvs up to 9500 rpm and the best it sounds like a V10 F1 engine.


That sound is soooo inspiring...wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 馃槏
sounds silence in a loud world man... I love it. Driving that street legal would be a cure from depression.r
 

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Brother thank you for that wonderful read and information.
Thanks, you are welcome.

I've just tapped into the 90.5x106 drag race world with my 1D simulation to see what 4Piston did on their 500 [email protected],000 rpm engine. It seems to me their approach is different to what they published, I mean the 30 mm exhaust valve can't keep up with the output mass flow. I've done up to now 22 different cam and valve seat designs on intake and exhaust. What I always see, the exhaust duration need to be really huge with the 30 mm exhaust and 38.3 mm intake valve. The maximum power, which peaks at 10,000 rpm, is 483 hp for the moment, but the valve sizes are shifted for the advance of exhaust side, also the their KV600 cam profile are modified in that direction. So what I want to say, there are many roads to Rome. I hope I find mine to 500 hp on a K-series at least at simulation level...LOL :D.
 

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The 1D simulator is something I need to look into getting. It would serve my brain well and in fact keep the Honda K20 file busy. Then I will be able to think about " other thoughts to thunk.." I do not doubt 4Pistion served a platter of secrets to their competitors, the valve sizing should be advanced. Simple theory tells me, a 100% max out camshaf, full top end bolt-ons, and top grade fuel that uses a 38.3 mm intake valve, would make me guess around 34.4-34.7 mm exhaust valve. What do I know..right? Does it matter..? No. Do I really care..? No. I am just a blessed guy working on a cool Honda build that will be passed down to my daughter in less than 5 years. A turn-key intensely vibrating serious all business car. Bars everywhere, deep modified race header w/ a megaphone straight back to both straight thru a Vibrant 3" resinator and Vibrant 3" stealth muffler. Finally...finally when the parent of my daughter's friend turns the corner of the car and drop-jaw engine bay delivers it's pause... " Your Dad built you that car?"

The whole 500HP - 519HP 4Piston accomplishment will forever hold it's place in the referral to time - pre and post K27. 12 years ago the Old School American Drag Racers starting saying " Those Hondas make power " Power is what is needed in drag racing.. What interests me was the 326 HP 86mm x 86mm using the TSX Pro head. I like it so much I went out immediately and found a 100% complete one for $225. Using RR3 cams they managed to make a decent amount more mid-range and keep TQ linear close to redline. This tells me at least two things - they are harnessing air velocity extremely well pre mid-range. The fact that the 86mm stroke helps keep TQ after mid-range linear for 2000 rpm, gives the air velocity somewhere to go. And that accelerates the process of top-end volumetric efficiently, again the more "Umpff in the beginning" theory. NA 326HP at the crank from 86x86

Things have been slow this week around here. My health isn't improving, getting harder to walk and work around alot. This RSX build is giving me the young feeling again, that is what I need it. I can't wait. I have the engine host out front but it is all wrapped up by tarps. The car has a rubber cover over the engine bay but the hood is down. All electric sensors still on the harness are taped up, I have plastic bags over the IM.... I am like a warhorse caught in a stable right now with this rain. My Sister had surgery last Thursday to remove a tumor from ovarian cancer. My grandmother was back into the ER from internal bleeding 9 days ago. She is now in a facility to build her back up again to go to her apartment. I am helping my Sister, so I have 4 kids I am homeschooling and assisting with virtual/home schooling (virtual is homeschooling really). I am busy.

Sometimes I don't mind the build being down. I get better ideas when I have to wait for them. This atuff I am doing isn't cheap, I do not want to waste money. At the same time I want to do the job right, not skip gaskets, have the new build go to poop while I am showing it off to my buddies. " Look at what I built. And oil is rivering out on their driveway...hahaha
 
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