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Awesome build thread Them Witches! I am looking forward to read more of your project car 
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Posts by LotusElise
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Uuuuuiiiii...a 400 ci '68 GTO? Two of 3 speed gearbox? Wuuuuuuhuuuuu, I love that metallic deep tumbre at idle. An amazing concept, one of the best GM cars. Would love to see it.
Great progress hear.
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Wow, I am really looking forward to see it
. Does it have a Ram Air 2 head?
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Wow, I am really looking forward to see it
. Does it have a Ram Air 2 head?
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Woooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuw, that looks soooo tasty man! Now I am jealous, great that guys like you keep that time of car history alive 🆙. I love these metallic deep bubbling crossplane crank and big displacement sound so much...wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. Great car, the red interior is so sexy, reminds me on my '79 Ford Capri, sort of Ford Mustang Pony Car in European size LOL
, in red color with a brown velour leather and area rug interior, but that wasn't that sexy. Are you going to restore the chassis and the engine?
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Thanks, I appreciate your offer. I was once in the USA, in 2002. It was around end of August on a scientific conference on CO2 sequestration to report about my research work for my doctoral thesis. My colleague and me added a week after the conference to learn FL a bit better to know. We started from Clearwater (conference basis) down to Key West over Everglade City. That town impressed me that much, the first was the lifted house, no ground level in the house, just pillars. A police car was in front of it beside the huge stairway to the first floor. The next what I remember was a white City Hall in the Copland Avenue. On the parking place there was a huge tree and in the shadow of it there rested a black, maybe '51 Buick Roadmaster, in perfect condition. It was an amazing moment I will never forget. It was like a film scene, so unreal real, it sat just there and was waiting while the evening sun was reflected by the City Hall wall and give the scenery a light orange coloring and the sun blinked through the by breezing warm wind moving Leafs of that tree. An amazing moment. Somewhere I have a photo of that awesome moment. An good Idea, I should dig that out...anyway, this was one moment of many, were I was amazed by that land. Especially the cars and engines impressed me. Beginning from the V8 Ford E-Series, which took me from Tampa to Clearwater, over many trucks, lories on the way down to Key West, the 3 axis having 40 foot boat trailer which was carried by a black colored modified Ford F 450 super duty and back on the east side to Palm Beach, where we saw a likely from year '54 Cadillac Eldorado in pure red on a live film set. It was just amazing. For the sound I have many Pony Car films, beginning from Bullit over Blues Brothers, Death Proof, Mad Max, ..., Only 60 Sekonds up to Vanishing Point. I really love that cars, but never did ride one.
Here in Europe we have beside the AMG's cross plane cranks of the M177/M178/M157 and so on mostly flat plane V8 cranks, which sound like a screeming I4 engine. So no need here for V8...LOL
. Honda gives me almost all I need to hear, screaming I4 sound of up to 9,000 rpm. In some future we will build a 1 Liter race engine which revvs up to 12,000 rpm. That is my drug beside the cross plane thing. Maybe I should build a Yamaha YZF RN22 engine for a bycicle, it has actually the only I4-crossplane crank...Amazing, like a modern V8 sound...
I see your point 🆙
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Thanks, even with my uneven writing...I appreciate that 🆙.
That's great if one look also over his own pot what's going on elsewhere. The Quarter Mile is a perfect place for that, where different kind of displacement and chassis fight for the best acceleration time. Here in Europe we have also those meets where the guys gather to show what's up to date with the old cars from the 60'ies till 90'ies. In my homeland there is a old hill climb track, banned for racing since '86, but there is every two years a Classic race where cars older then 30 years allowed to race one day. The winner is not the fastest, it is the one who did the best guessing of his track time to prevent the old cars to get riden into the wall or sky (up to 150 m kind of free fall possible just half a meter beside the street). It's amazing, you can see there from Fiat's BEAST, an amazing displacement monster with 4 cylinders 190x250 (= 28,353 ccm) up to a V8 Ford Capri from the DTM (German Touring Masters) from the 80'ies.
Didn't find a better video without German comment. To see more of the track maybe this gives a better insight.
BTW, best time ever on this track is 03:08,26. So this was a medium fast ride. There a few guys here I know which are really affected by the crossplane V8's. One of them I learned to know is running a Ford Pickup from the 60'ies with an 550 ci NA engine, pushing around 1100 hp down the track on alcohol. He still tunes his carburetor nozzles with spark plug analysis, like some of us learned it in the early 12th-16th when tuning their 50 ccm 2 stroke bicycles. Quite cracy, that displacement monster runs track times like a highly modified FWD Civic. In Europe there is only one glued track in England available. So track times differ from those measured in the US, especially for the FWD's.
A friend and me started some tuning projects based on VAG engine/cars. I only know a few things about the engine codes, setup's, durabilities. My friend is about 20 years doing those engines, but he know nothing real of essence, beside Honda has the better engines LOL
, about the B- and K-series engine. I think having real knowhow about different kind of engines need some effort to learn, which is difficult if you are focused and occupied by one series or engine type. Finally the are somewhere similar in the functions and physics, just the part stuff and durability and performance and...has to be learned if someone wants to be a wizzard on many of them. So I pull my hat for those like you who have seen over their own pot and learned their stuff outside the edge of it.I always wanted to drive down the Road 1 or Highway one from North to South. A lot of engine guys life on that road or nearby of it in some kind of, even some out of the K20a.org
. Unfortunately it didn't happen yet. Too less money for that... Very nice journey. I never was there. Japan is a place with very interesting people and engines, to meet one of these racing companies like TODA or SPOON would be cool, take a ride with the Shinkansen Train, ...would be nice. Anyway you are right, the technology transfer from one country into another country because of labor costs has effects on many things. 10 years ago China copied many technologies, without and with permission, today they rule many markets with their cheaper products. Europe is still exporting technology and products to China, as it is the biggest consumer market on earth actually. But it won't take long than the direction changes, the more electronics will come the more mass products we will find on the market cheap. An example, we were looking for a closed loop control hardware for our flow bench, we bought cheap stuff from Ebay (China). After it got smoked we changed to a US hardware (LapJack) and German SW to control it. Much more serious stuff, still economic level, but it does what we expect from them. Buy local is something I've learned from my wife, which buys food only from locals. I do it as far as possible with my stuff to and it is hard if you get it for an 10th of the price elsewhere, but local companies has to be supported. Otherwise we will lose them. Sometimes it is really hard, especially if you compete yourself with other country products. I like your approach 🆙.
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Wow, that is amazing. I really liked to see that race car flying around the circuit. It is impressing to see how stable the chassis takes it up with Newton's 2nd law, beside the front directed hunger to accelerate it. Wow...
A boosted Honda takes it up with an perfect race car. That's Honda and it's Honda guys...just wow!
Yeah, those cylinder heads are a very good basis for high revving small displacements. My colleague, the one were I build the engine stuff, has a project of a Yamaha head on a 1 liter block, should hit the 200 hp mark. The company Synergy also builds nice V8 with those heads. Maybe Radical is using those. I know a FB friend who run a Bonneville car with the 2-Liter version, made 460 [email protected] rpm. Those heads have an amazing feeding capability at high revvs, while the bore is still small. The key is to lower the displacement feeded with each valve, equals to increase the cylinder numbers. This gives a lower stroke (= lower mechanical stress at higher engine speeds) and a lower displacement feeded by the valves. So I think the Radical engine setup is still a medium setup to give the engines a better durability. What do you guys think?
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Thanks I really liked and enjoyed reading it. Regarding the video I need to check it out.
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Very nice phrase to know "makes my ass turn coal to diamonds!". It has a strong picture attitude and everyone get an intense idea of what you felt.
No I don't know it unfortunately. As Japanese guys are proud of their capabilities and achievements and have a strong group relation I don't believe this did ever happen. But this just my observation and conclusion out of that. Yamaha has a strong and historical built competence and culture for high end engine heads. This lead to a responsibility for the development to be the best in the market as development goal. If you have hundreds of specified goals for a cylinder head development and many of them are just products of clearance, emission, reliability there is not too much space for high end production and high end ports. Look at VAG. Awful head ports for an mass market, completely clearance and fabrication driven designs. Yamaha doesn't have that strong attitude for fabrication cost, clearances savings but a stronger performance goal. Therefore you see what also VW guys could do but likely never did for puplic eyes, they made a straight intake port with an steep angle to force and focus on highest VE at higher engine speeds and higher loads, for that with lower interest in emission relevant low speed part load situations. If you look at their Yamaha R1 head, the inclined valve angle is very small, therefore the combustion chamber in the head is very small. They integrated 5 valves into that small 74 mm bore or 4 into the 78 mm bore head. This gives you an big cross section area for the valves, even at this low inclined valve angle (smaller inclined angle = smaller area for valve cross section). The straight and steep intake helps especially the VE build up in the higher engine speeds and load sections of the map, down low you shouldn't look so deep into it 😉. These factors are the basis for the performance, no VW or Honda Car market engine will ever get because of hood clearance. With the uneven or odd igniton firing the R1 engine has an amazing capability to come from down low up to the right corner with very high mean VE numbers. The uneven ign. firing of the cross plane crank helps to scavenge better then the plane crank design because of the uneven and partly bigger durations between two firings to come out of the mood of lower engine speeds. With that came up and downs...you know maybe why it is the only I4 cross plane, it works out good at lower emissions, higher engine speeds and load. Down low, not so good.
What Honda did is for me the real champion work. The K-series head didn't have the same freedom Yamaha had in the spec paper with the R1 head. Under hood clearance forces the head ports to become different, as well as the emission ones. The flat port forces a more roller flow design in the chamber, which supports the combustion at lower engine speeds where more residual gases slow it down and the squish doesn't work that effective. Bigger inclined valve angle of 51° (also because of the clearance demand of the iVTEC system), a strong bended port with all it's flow consequences lead to a more typical car engine design. Under these circumstances these heads are amazing, good enough specific low lift flow and very good specific high lift flow values. No head on the market at this valve size can compete with it. They did an amazing job. Just for your comparison, a modified I4 TFSI head, without flaps, flows 0,26 cfm/mm² and the OEM untouched K20 RSP head 0,31 cfm/mm² at the same valve lift. That's night and day.
What can we learn from this? Beside my colleague is building a 1 Liter VAG block-Yamaha head Frankenstein to aim for 200 hp/Liter...he knows his VAG stuff is...psssst...maybe this. The difference of those is seated in the specifications and applications they went into. A technology transfer makes sense in some aspects, when you e.g. build a race car. Further placed injectors, variable intake runner length concepts, consideration of combustion chamber design and so on. But all that depends on budget, application and what effort you want to put in. The main aspect when going from a good basis like the K-series is breathing of the engine: at scavenging and ramming phase of the intake cycle. This is a strongly engine speed related task, here are the K-series and the Yamaha R1 engine far from each other. The one get cut at 8600 rpm the other at 12500 rpm. For me as an engine designer concepts are better transferable then specific design aspects as design aspects changes much with application and speed limits. Just a example, while a NASCAR valve seat of 55° with an higher valve-throat-ratio did really work well the same is not true for a 4 valve head which speeds up to 20,000 rpm. A Formula 1 V12 engine engine I know had just around 40° valve seats and a lower valve-thorat-ratio. Different design aspects, even different valve seat concepts for a similar task? By far not, totally different applications and requirements giving us totally different design aspects! I am sure if we could have a deeper look into that we would see many ways lead to Rome. So my fraction of outcome of this is, Honda did a great job for their application task and none I know comes near to that in quality, performance and durability. Yamaha did also a great job, but under different requirements. I am not sure who thick the pullover must be for others if Honda would have the same requirements 😉.
Having no bends may help anyway to increase VE, but it the working speed range we work it doesn't matter, neither on intake, nor and over more on exhaust. If you look at the Yamaha head of the Toyota 2ZZ-GE engine, it uses a major amount of the R1 technology and bended the IM runners accordingly. The 2ZZ-GE eninge is good for the bore size it has, but even there Honda takes it all. BTW, Toyota had always a top series engine with Yamaha heads and like with e.g. the 2UR-GSE engine even the complete engine. They definitly teamed up.
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BTW, one of the best Yamaha Car engine is the 1LR-GUE, a street legal V10-4.8 Liter ready to race engine with titan rods, forged pistons, ITB's, dry sump...revvs up to 9500 rpm and the best it sounds like a V10 F1 engine.
That sound is soooo inspiring...wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 😍
That sound is soooo inspiring...wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 😍
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Yes this Yamaha engine has the potential for that
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Thanks, you are welcome.
I've just tapped into the 90.5x106 drag race world with my 1D simulation to see what 4Piston did on their 500 [email protected],000 rpm engine. It seems to me their approach is different to what they published, I mean the 30 mm exhaust valve can't keep up with the output mass flow. I've done up to now 22 different cam and valve seat designs on intake and exhaust. What I always see, the exhaust duration need to be really huge with the 30 mm exhaust and 38.3 mm intake valve. The maximum power, which peaks at 10,000 rpm, is 483 hp for the moment, but the valve sizes are shifted for the advance of exhaust side, also the their KV600 cam profile are modified in that direction. So what I want to say, there are many roads to Rome. I hope I find mine to 500 hp on a K-series at least at simulation level...LOL
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No room for that size. The limit is the 45.25 mm radius, where it is already hard to get a 38.3 valve in, not speaking about the shrouding. What you can do is increasing the exhaust valve diameter but then you must reduce the intake valve diameter, just because you still need relevant valve overlap and no valve to valve contact in that period. 30 mm is the maximum at 38.3 mm intake valves and serious cam lobe center angles, the basis for NA engine power.
Very nice vision.
Theory is always helpfully to start something unexperienced to make it kind of experiencable 😉. That field is one of my favourites. The 330 flwhp are a beginning. I designed a Bonneville engine based on a 90x78.5 (1998 ccm) engine which would need a customized valvetrain (design finished) which would be able to push 380 [email protected],000 rpm on the dyno brake. The engine is very expensive, almost 30 k€, almost everything is customized. The approach I used is the same as for the 90.5x106 engine. The 2000 ccm displacement is just a much better fit to the K20 head. Valve cross section and the individual cylinder displacement matching so good for 8000-12000 rpm redline speed applications. That what you say, the torque get's nicely flat over a wide revving range. In terms of load and speed control very predictable because the power development is just linear, you know what comes next so easily if you let revv it just 1000 rpm more...all the way up to 11,500 rpm. A Bonneville Salt sea engine must be capable of some over revving when the cars fly over wet areas, so it has to be designed to go into +1500 rpm at least to peak power speed. Which makes this thing so expensive: 12,500 rpm is no joke for the long lever arms of the K-series valvetrain. Timing chain lenghtening can ruin your engine too as well as valve floating is biggest and most expensive challenge. Another issue is, what works on sea level optimal, doesn't work optimal on salt sea level at 1600 m altitude. Density goes down by a significant portion, mass impulse vs. pressure wave dynamic changing their weight among the best VE supporters over the revving band. Anyway, the 330 flwhp out of the 86x86 engine are nice, nice when it is there below 9000 rpm. The Bonneville engine would reach it at 8800 rpm and make it climbing all the way up to 11,000 rpm. My DAMPFHAMMER engine is planned to reach 310 [email protected] rpm, it's an Slalom application which needs huge torque all the way down to the left end of the high speed cam at 4500 rpm. Totally different engine. I really like that 2000 ccm displacement. As I said, distribute it to 8 cylinders you can decrease the stroke, use a flat tappet approach valvetrain with an belt and you can see with the right head and everything else 460 [email protected],600 rpm. Think of what a 2.4 Liter (80x60) engine would be capable of, the 500 flwhp border would be kicked to at least 540 flwhp at just the same VE level. So to say, the doubling of the I4 concept is the 2-Liter-heaven regarding power, not regarding a high torque. My DAMPFHAMMER reached at 5200 rpm already 274 Nm on the dyno, it will peak at 7500 rpm. The V8 won't get in that area, because when the air column is at optimal speed the time for combustion is already very short and the losses in the rotating parts are already so high that the gas forces, creating the torque, get eaten by them in a significant manner. Just power climbs with engine speed as the lower torque level can be kept by the huuuuuge valve cross section, which is needed to get the air into that thing beyond 10,000 rpm. BTW, Formula 1 need decades to get beyond 12,000 rpm, just because combustion was always to slow. That complexity of every process on the IC engine hands into another one and none of them can be pronounced to much as the optimum is a huuuuge compromise for the individual one makes it for me so fantastic, inspiring and interesting. No propulsion system is that complex as the IC engine. None of them. Every little discipline of physics can be found in that little system. None of them has the compactness and power range (0.005 hp to 80,000 hp). None of them has occupied so much engineers over 100 years. Just no they began to ring it down by the emissions limits. I already designed and tested zero bad emission IC engine using Hydrogen based on Gas engines of the company I worked for. BTW, it is the oldest series engine producing company of the world, over 110 years old. It's a tragic for me to see this kind of technology is no longer demanded by the next generations. When my daughter will leave the house, about in 6 years, we will see much more E-engines, Fuel Cells and less of IC engines. That will impact the race industry in some way, and of course my vision of developing many more high end concepts for the racing market.
I am sorry for my long post. Thinking of that waves me from enthusiastic, to inspiration and a bit of blue feelings...
Sorry to hear that. I hope there is a light on the end of the tunnel.
Man, I am really sorry to read that. I whish you and your relative the strongness to stand this.
I was also home schooling my daughter, just one. But I know it can be exhausting, especially if the kid need extra support to get things in a logic row of order, like our does need. But it was a great experience for me, I saw many of my lacking talents to teach one so that not only I understand it 😉...I learnt much about keeping patience and curiousity awake instead of let the frustration grow. But I am still worlds apart from a good teacher, which makes a funny and efficient kids teaching. My students at University where better customers for that 😅. How is your experience with that teaching, especially if those are your own kids in your own house?
Yeah
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To get you a better overview what 34 mm exhaust OD would mean.
This is the 38.3 mm intake valve head which is opposed by the 30 mm exhaust valves. Intake and exhaust valve edges already touch each other when closed, so opening is another story. You see the top cuts of the intake valves already merge each other, also not far from spark plug...it's the intake valves, touching the exhaust valves during overlap, which is the main limiting factor. The valve to piston contact is also an issue, but not in case of a increased exhaust valve OD.
Ooooh, man I am sorry for your pain and mobility restrictions as well as the hypertension. That must be really hard for you compensating this on your daily work and living. Does the skateborading increase the wear of the ankles? I have a both sided retropatellaire chondropathie from some lacking knee construction mechanic genes and years of running, climbing and cycling. I live with it since 2009. Anyway since 2012 I had to quit cycling as even stairs pained me, I pulled me up the stairs by hand 😅. Today I do 10 minutes on the cross trainer a day if possible, eat a lot of cartilage improving food. But to knee down, to crouch down, running and all that stuff I can't do without days of with 1000 needles in the knees.
How do you balance your body if the anckles are fused? All with being flexible in the knees? Or with the toes?
Very nice age. My 12 year old tests actually on daily basis the tension of my nerves...LOL
. I need to adapt my tolerance hugely to keep up with her. Since when do you homeschool her? That's a long school day from 8 am to 4 pm. Mine has 2 days long till 4 pm and 3 days short till 12:30 am. Actually schools are open since September.Great, I am looking forward to see your project growing man! I hope you do your exhaust piping yourself. If you like, I can do the design for you.
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Sorry for my late reply, to do it right I would have to simulate the engine. Intake R&D is complex and it is always a question where you want to add torque and where to lower, as it is always a compromise of give and take in a different way. So what would be your idea of give and take of torque?
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If you switch from a 3" OD intake with 10" length to an 20" one you will see a to lower engine speed shifted support. I only talk about high speed camshaft. That said, there is an optimal intake for every engine speed range. Of course it is important from where you come from to say that system will give you a better result for your aim. Roughly you can say an ID > 70 mm is necessary for high speed cam support. The shorter it is, the higher the supported engine speed range is (don't expect a wider range then 3000 rpm if ID is chosen).
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Some in addition to give you a view of what I mean.
Torque curves of an engine. Blue and black line represent a 280 mm long intake of 74 and 80 mm ID, the other two a 560 mm long intake pipe of 74 and 80 mm. The diameter doesn't change the torque in that magnitude length does it. It's a game changer. But there is no overall win. It is always a give and take. You need to know where your demand is highest.
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Yes, what is good for stationary torque must not be good to have an aggressiv transition when load and engine speed changes. There is another point, shorter pipes are prone to suck more heated then the longer ones. Measures like fresh air feeders incl. feed housings has to be taken. Many of the customers have short pipe intakes and see elevated intake air temperatures. The mentioned fresh air approach is a must to get out the optimum. Long horn intakes can solve that, but risk higher risk of suction in of water, dirt and insects. The first is an engine killer, if water level increases too high and you want to "rescue" your car.
When I have time I will look into your options.
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Congratulation to you for achieving your milestone under this tough circumstances. I hope and whish you see more ups as downs and your projects help to heal your suffers a bit.
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