[sujinX]

wuts the purpose of swinging out the back end? im always faster when my rear trails the front, kicking it out seemed to make me spin. i guess its how people prefer things?

 

[EG6VtecR]

I just realized that there is a confussion with the tires in this thread for the last 2 pages between the bfgoorich R1 & the toyo proxes RA1.

I was referring to the bfgoorich R1's not the toyo proxes RA1 vs the toyo R888.

 

[K Miata]

wuts the purpose of swinging out the back end? im always faster when my rear trails the front, kicking it out seemed to make me spin. i guess its how people prefer things?

for the most part I agree with you, but sometimes it helps to break it free around a tight corner, as long as you can control the spin, which is easier said than done

but under most circumstances, yeah you don't want the back end all over the place.

 

[Goodsnacks]

I run the BFG KDWS 215/40R17 on my car DD, they are abut noisey buthace good traction. I haven't had a chance to take them autox'n. Burin sure they would do ok. I'd like to try and see if I could fit a 17x8 and go with the 235/40r17 under my EP3. I have rolled the rear wells to fit those ones, I think it might be tight on the front. The 235's are about +.7% larger then my stock 195/65r15 if I remember correctly and the 215's are -.7%. I like the -7 a lot better but I'm willing to give it up fir more tread on the road. I'd like to try out the RE11, it's a nice looking tire

 

[formuladee]

^^^it was the spec tire last season i think...most the porsches guys i talked to don't like the 888's compared to the RA1 and are more then excited to go back to them(RA1's).

truth. RA1's are spec tires in a lot of NASA and SCCA series:up:

 

[EG6VtecR]

RA1's

they are their grippiest right before they are chorded. So that means when you buy them new, they get better and better and better:up:

thats what I've heard. and I've heard because of this, the tire life is pretty long.

I'm thinking about some 949Racing 6UL 15x8 wheels with some RA1s for the DC2... that would be a good time.

has anyone else confirmed this? I mainly road race the car, and heating tires up is definitely not a problem. maybe going 15x8 with RA1s could be too much...

but then again, the RA1 seems to be the standard tire for NASAs Honda Challenge, and of course all those cars are quite light.

ive seen alot of the spec porsches run r888's and other cars run ra1's I guess it depends on the setup of the course?

^^^it was the spec tire last season i think...most the porsches guys i talked to don't like the 888's compared to the RA1 and are more then excited to go back to them(RA1's).

see thats what I had heard from a few people. I friend of mine has run both tires on his cars and definitely prefers the RA1s.

are 15x8s wrapped in RA1s too much grip for the back wheels? I mean I can always stiffen up the dampening in the rear.

It's really to set it up to make the back end swing out with my current 205/50/15 Azenis.

Thoughts?

Are you guys talking about the:

toyo proxes RA1 100 temp semy slick
or the:
BFGOORICH G-FORCE R1 40 temp full slick

 

[K Miata]

^^^ Toyo RA1s

 

[ilovemyef9]

wut were u running? giving info on tires but not telling people what they were is pointless.

FAIL.. on my part!!

I am running the Kumho Exsta XS!!!!

 

[EG6VtecR]

I called 949racing today to get some info & order the 15x8 wheels.

This is what they tell me: go 15x9 front 15x8 rear
Tires 225 front 205 rear with a little wing go 235F 205R.

They say NT01 are better than R888
Bf r1 better than NT01 but don't last as long.

I kinda wanna go 15x8 R888 225 so i can rotate them.

Bf R1 are temping since they're full slicks & cost the same as R888 & then the NT01 are way cheaper which 949racing say that are faster than R888 but can't rotate them like R888 to get more life out of them. But the NT01 are about $40 cheaper per tire so around $160 per set savings sounds sweet.

 

[JamesL]

Are you guys talking about the:

toyo proxes RA1 100 temp semy slick
or the:
BFGOORICH G-FORCE R1 40 temp full slick

The BFG R1s will be substantially faster per lap than either of the Toyo semi slicks.

It all depends on what you are looking for out of a tire. The RA-1s will last you far longer than the BFG R1s... and will remain far more consistent over the course of their life.

But the R1s on par with the Hoosier R6, and although they lack the ultimate grip of the R6, they are very similar in regards to feedback and breakaway characteristics. They will be the fastest with much less slip angle than the Toyo RA-1s/R888s. Basically, they are much more of a "true slick" than the Toyos. And there is no debating that they are a faster tire all around.

Something else to consider. You are comparing the 225-45-15 Toyo to a 225-50-15 BFG R1. Keep in mind that the R1s run WIDE for their size.... I mean really wide. They also run small in regards to overall diameter, which is probably a good thing if you are looking at 225-50-15s... but just keep that in mind, you may be close to rubbing depending on wheel width/offset and camber.

 

[JamesL]

wuts the purpose of swinging out the back end? im always faster when my rear trails the front, kicking it out seemed to make me spin. i guess its how people prefer things?

FWD cars will be the fastest when the rear of the vehicle starts to rotate before the front at corner entry. Physics allows our cars to "pull" themselves straight with the front wheels.

Coupled with the fact that the earlier you are pointed in the right direction for corner exit, the earlier you can get on the throttle... and the faster you will be out of the corner.

This type of setup will be the fastest IF you can control it and keep the rear of the car behind you. If you are hesitant and inconsistent with your throttle application, odds are you will lose it. This setup works for the guys who drive their car 110% at all times, who know how to place their car exactly where they want on the track, who commit to the throttle 100% and would never think of lifting mid corner, etc...

For the other 90% of weekend warrior type drivers/track guys, they are generally faster with a bit of understeer as it makes the car easy to drive... not necessarily easy to drive fast, but easy to drive relatively quickly and confidently.

 

[EG6VtecR]

FWD cars will be the fastest when the rear of the vehicle starts to rotate before the front at corner entry. Physics allows our cars to "pull" themselves straight with the front wheels.

Coupled with the fact that the earlier you are pointed in the right direction for corner exit, the earlier you can get on the throttle... and the faster you will be out of the corner.

This type of setup will be the fastest IF you can control it and keep the rear of the car behind you. If you are hesitant and inconsistent with your throttle application, odds are you will lose it. This setup works for the guys who drive their car 110% at all times, who know how to place their car exactly where they want on the track, who commit to the throttle 100% and would never think of lifting mid corner, etc...

For the other 90% of weekend warrior type drivers/track guys, they are generally faster with a bit of understeer as it makes the car easy to drive... not necessarily easy to drive fast, but easy to drive relatively quickly and confidently.

Good input on both post.

What's your input on the R888 vs NT01



I agree on a car set up to rotate the rear to fight under steer is for someone that knows how to dodulate the trottle to fight the over rotation & avoid a spin. Sometimes you gotta be hard on the trottle when you have transfered weight to the front tires on a tight & slow corner. Any lift of the trottle or tap of the brakes most like will make you loose it & too much throttle may create undesired under steer & place you too wide on corner exits.

 

[sujinX]

hmmm good info, im a newbie. Still learning, the ever changing setup is not helping me get used to the car either.

Theres a guy in my class that runs nt01's and he does extremely well. but thats auto-x. iuno about road race... yet.

 

[K Miata]

JamesL, that was a perfect explanation of why you can be quicker if you let the rear break free. and also why I don't do it much

Ok, I wanted to bump this back up because I need new tires ASAP. right now I have some 15x7 rota slips (yeah yeah I know) but I want to throw on some Toyo RA1s for the track. My funds are limited right now.

So, I want a 225/50/15. Toyo's website says these can be mounted on a 15" wheel either 6, 7, or 8" wide. At first I was planning on upgrading my wheels to something wider, but would there me any advantages/disadvantages of running the 225 width on a 7" wheel vs. a 7.5" or 8"? Eventually I want new wheels, but right now there are other mods that will get me around the track faster.

Who has experience with this and can point me in the right direction? Thanks

 

[EG6VtecR]

Nitto nt01 can be had for $115 225/45/15

949racing tells me they faster than toyo R888 as soon as I get a tracking # from wheels I'm gonna order the nt01 to try them.

Try to stay away from a 50 or 55 profile I learn it the hard way. The lower the profile the better response you will get, the better the car will handle.

On something widers than 205 7.5, 8 or 9 wheel will work in your favor since it make the tires have a wider patch contact with the road. But 7" will do for a 225 tire.

 

[K Miata]

ok. So, 225/50/15 RA1s or R888s on a 15x7 wheel. You need to go to the 50 width for a 7" wide rim. Good or bad? Toyo says they are sized for a 7" wide wheel, but any advantages going with a 7.5 or 8?

 

[K Miata]

Nitto nt01 can be had for $115 225/45/15

949racing tells me they faster than toyo R888 as soon as I get a tracking # from wheels I'm gonna order the nt01 to try them.

Try to stay away from a 50 or 55 profile I learn it the hard way. The lower the profile the better response you will get, the better the car will handle.

On something widers than 205 7.5, 8 or 9 wheel will work in your favor since it make the tires have a wider patch contact with the road. But 7" will do for a 225 tire.

those nitto nt01's look nice and sounds really good too. that price is attractive. and it says you can mount them on a 7" wide wheel... could be a cheap option for me

 

[JamesL]

A 225/50/15 is pretty large for a little Civic hatch. An Integra could get away with it a bit easier, IMO.

You need to take gearing changes into consideration as well, if the tire is a taller OD than what you have been running previously. 225/15/15 is almost a full inch taller than a 225/45/15.


Running a 225 tire on a wider wheel, such as a 8" or 9", changes the shape of the contact patch slightly. It doesn't mean there is any more rubber on the road, just that the contact patch that is on the road is wider and shorter. This has its benefits... specifically, that each discrete "patch" has less work to do per each rotation of the tire. The shorter the contact patch gets, the more uniform the loading is that is applied to the area of the patch. This should result in an increase in lateral grip.

Theoretically, a shorter/wider contact patch should also be less prone to deformation... and should have less rolling resistance.


That all being said, a 225/50/15 or 225/45/15 will work fine on a 15x7" wheel. Will it be the absolute fastest? No, perhaps not. But it will be a quick/cheap solution and one that plenty of racers use.

 

[K Miata]

A 225/50/15 is pretty large for a little Civic hatch. An Integra could get away with it a bit easier, IMO.

You need to take gearing changes into consideration as well, if the tire is a taller OD than what you have been running previously. 225/15/15 is almost a full inch taller than a 225/45/15.


Running a 225 tire on a wider wheel, such as a 8" or 9", changes the shape of the contact patch slightly. It doesn't mean there is any more rubber on the road, just that the contact patch that is on the road is wider and shorter. This has its benefits... specifically, that each discrete "patch" has less work to do per each rotation of the tire. The shorter the contact patch gets, the more uniform the loading is that is applied to the area of the patch. This should result in an increase in lateral grip.

Theoretically, a shorter/wider contact patch should also be less prone to deformation... and should have less rolling resistance.


That all being said, a 225/50/15 or 225/45/15 will work fine on a 15x7" wheel. Will it be the absolute fastest? No, perhaps not. But it will be a quick/cheap solution and one that plenty of racers use.

thanks for the info, you know your stuff. So, I am I better off with a 225/50/15 or a 225/45/15 then? Given that the factory tire is a 195/55/15, I was thinking of going with the 50 vs. 45, but I know there are advantages to the 45. Plus the NT01s only come in 225/45/15s. I'm still up in the air between the RA1 and the NT01.

 

[K Miata]

okay I have an update on tires. I just bought some Toyo R888s, 225/50/15 for a whopping $115 each at tiresdirect.net. They are located in Addison IL and I will be picking them up. Sweet deal that I couldn't pass up. Thought I'd pass it along.