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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I lot of people say "the K is too much $$$ , I will stick with the B"

If you have a All Motor B series engine or you are thinking about buying one, it is a no brainer for me. A K20a will give you more power and will cost less and basically where an average B series setup ends, a K setup begins.

Let;s take a look at this B series setup

b18c1 w/ a.e.b.s. t-sleeves
86mm ross pistons 12.5:1 compession
manley rods
a.e.b.s. main/head studs
b16 head with stage 7 d.p.r. port work
welded and reshaped chambers
ferrerra valves
dpr valve springs w/ crower retainers
crower custum ground camshafts
hytech header (thick tubing)
toda cam gears/toda timing belt
rc 440cc injectors
ericks racing 72mm throttle body
type r mainfold port matched to head
toda flywheel
msd digital 7
wahlbro 255 fuel pump
cometic head gasket
hondata intake manifold gasket
hondata s200
p28 ecu
93 gsr cable tranny
xs fuel pressure reguator
pro drive oil pump gear
moroso oil pan


Here;s the dyno run



220 whp /148 tq

The cost list the owner gave out looks like this.

COST DOESN"T ACCOUNT FOR THE INITIAL ENGINE, TRANNY, LABOR,

a.e.b.s. sleeves-800
a.e.b.s. head and main studs-180
ross pistons 12.5:1 86mm-600
manley rods-495
dpr stage 7 head-2300
valves-300
cams-900
cam gears-300
toda timing belt-150
hytech header-1400
rc injectors-225
intake manifold-160
ericks racing throttlebody-300
pro drive oil pump gear-300
moroso oil pan-200
moroso oil pickup-80
hondata-400
balance&blueprinting 250

$9,285 again without labor install, gaskets, etc...


Like I said, it is a no brainer to me. This b series motor still has some potential but it is very limited...

On the other hand, a k20a2 type S motor can give you the same numbers with I/H/E K pro and some good tuning. Assuming the k20a2 is on a hybrid car because the RSX headers are very restrictive due to their design.

Not trying to put down the N/A B series people... I would love to have one but I don;t see the point starting a 10K B series project when for the same money you can have a K20a/k20a2/k24a-k20a frank.

End of rant
 

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hmmm...yeah you are right Nikos...i was thinking the same thing the other day with some of my homies.

i love the B series to death, but when i bought my TYpeS last year, i just fell in love with VTEC all over again and all i have on my DC5 is AEM CAI, and Jackson racing race header..lol.

now that i have a hatchy(finally) all i want is a K20. But the motor is out of my price range right now. i might be able to cop a A2 but thats up there too..so im rolling with a K24. i mean b20vtec puttin out 150-165whp stock(just adding the head) i can make that with just he K24 and tons of torqe. and then in the future throw some pistons and rods and Type S head.

the K is where its at. most of the people in my crew are trying to their hands on a K motor..the K is where its at
 

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I can say from experience that most serious NA B series guys know the K is the future and are slowly making the change

B series will still be around but people are mistaken if they think parts will get cheaper....suppply will dry up and the cost vs. reward of buying B series parts will be too high to continue with B series stuff.

I had a 99 VSM EK with a 00' USDM ITR motor and some bolt-ons (VAFC, toda cam gears, dc jdm 4-1, minor tuning) 175whp/130tq

The car was fun and ran a 13.63 on an Si ecu with 160whp so the swap was a great improvement over the 16.7 I laid down stock (106hp)

With just a K20R motor I know I could see at least 13.0-13.3 out of the box and high 12's with bolt-ons -- low 12's with cams and a little tuning

That kind of power (EK 2500lbs) from almost an OEM motor is amazing and has me excited about the future of NA tuning. I sold my EK because I knew I was going K and I now have a 93 Si (Mint, looks new) and I purchased a near new condition 99 EK for daily duty.

The EG will receive the K motor and be my K series textbook so while I am learning and tinkering the EK will serve as the reliable transportation :lol:

But while people may think buying two cars is silly I know that when cars break its better to take your time fixing them than rushing.

B series all motor 200+whp builders should recognize that the K is more reliable and will be easier to find parts for in the near future as the K series is offered in more vehicles than the B ever was. That and the sheer number of K series cars sold should tell you a K20a swap will eventually cost as little as a current B16 swap (relative to inflation)

240whp in super realiable pump gas friendly trim with few "custom" parts

Its a reality and I hope more people stick with their Hondas and go K series.....while an NA K may not make 500whp just the fact that its a 4cyl motor and powering low 12's/high 11's near factory will go a long way to representing Hondas.

Its much easier to humble domestic racers now.....ALL MOTOR is the number one way to earn respect and the K will help us put some impressive numbers up from full interior, daily driven street cars on pump gas :twisted:

Dont get me started on the sick TSX motor buildup's :twisted:
 

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My other car is a S2000
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Stop trying to sell people on K-swaps!!! I like the exclusivity, and the "one-up" I have after a friendly run.

It goes like this after the run:
Admirer: "Damn, what'd you do to that thing!!! Damn it's fast!"
Me: "Nothing, it's a stock block with ECU upgrade, nothing more."
Admirer: "You must be juicing!"
Me: "Nope...no cheating for me"

Admirer (after I pop the hood): "What motor is that (not recognizing it right away)?"

Me: "Stock K20a2."

=======================================================
On the other hand, the more K-swaps out there, the cheaper the support market will become.
 

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nikos said:
I really like this comparison as well. It makes sense for big power and all motor.

Yes, it does...

Back in the days when I had MY EK with the K20 type r motor...I knew that the K motor was going to be the leader in ALL MOTOR category...

Mybe on turbo too ;)
 

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nikos said:
Not trying to put down the N/A B series people... I would love to have one but I don;t see the point starting a 10K B series project when for the same money you can have a K20a/k20a2/k24a-k20a frank.
i agree with nikos. i just finished a 10k b build up and i still replaced it with a k. :D
 

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Punishin' Bitches
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Yea, most people like to compare on how for the price of a kswap you could match its output for all the money dropped into it. But in the end the b series is at the end of its line and is maxed out. While a k series is making that power off of bolt ons and with some headwork along with cams would go into unchartered territory by many.
 

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BolivianFuego said:
Yea, most people like to compare on how for the price of a kswap you could match its output for all the money dropped into it. But in the end the b series is at the end of its line and is maxed out. While a k series is making that power off of bolt ons and with some headwork along with cams would go into unchartered territory by many.
I will give you some real results of a Cheaply built K-series Head on my K20A next week.. I'm hoping to gain a good 30-40+whp from porting and cams... :D
 

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Punishin' Bitches
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Good stuff. Can't wait to see the results. Also just for reference, on your race car how high are you revving? Til what point in the RPM band is your car making power?
 

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BolivianFuego said:
Good stuff. Can't wait to see the results. Also just for reference, on your race car how high are you revving? Til what point in the RPM band is your car making power?
Well the car starts to flatten off at about 7200.. I think from 7200-8800 it makes a flat line at 230whp
I only rev it to 8800, but it has been to 9200 on the dyno, but it doesn't make any more power..
 

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IntegraDA05 said:
The only thing that sucks is when they havent came out with any mounts ect... for the car your driving, other wise there would be a K plant in my beast :rolleyes:
yup i know ...but i was in the middle of putting together a 13.5:1 comp. B series for my project DA and after reading about the K and seeing what people are doing with them and coming to this site made me change my mind sell all the stuff i bought and im going K now ...this reminds me of when everyone was hating on H series swaping ...
 
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