To be, or not to be - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:16 AM   #1
mooky_stank
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Default To be, or not to be

Scroll down for shorter question.

Alright so here's the deal, forgive me if this is in the wrong forum, I didn't know exactly where to put it because it's an open-ended question.

I have a 2004 Honda Civic Si K20A3 with +120k miles. I bought it as it is from a friend with Apexi exhaust, an Injen short ram intake, and performance headers (I can't remember the brand.) Now when I got the car my friend was the second owner, and I knew that he had ragged it some. But the engine still sounds great and she has some kick in the ass for an a3 with what it has on it. The only thing was I noticed that when I would shift from second to third it would make a little chirp. Not like a long grind just a quick little noise. Well he said that the Honda dealer said it is a synchronizer ring and it was a shit ton to buy and replace and all that, so he didn't worry about it. And he said it was nothing I would have to worry about either.

Well now that I have the damn thing I have read into and see that it's a common problem on a3's and that they have bad tranny's. Thanks friend.

My short question is this:
I have a K20A3 with a bad synchronizer ring, I want to build this car as a daily driver, but I would like to get more hp out of it than the A3 tranny can handle anyway. Should I
1. Do a A2 tranny swap. Would this make much sense? (I think that's possible I don't know a whole lot about working on cars, which doesn't mean that I won't do my best to research and understand, and relay to a certified mechanic, lol, whatever advice you give me.)
2. Do a full A2 swap. Probably what most of you are going to say.
3. See if it's possible to find a synchro ring, which I looked in to and damned if I can find it.
4. Just get the ring (I've found part numbers for the synchro sets and what not in previous posts)
Your feedback is appreciated, please feel free to make any suggestions. I really want to make this car something special.
Thank You,
Mooky
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:34 AM   #2
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

the part that you need is cheap. its a little metal ring. dont buy it used or anything, buy a new one from the dealer or popular website like hondapartsdeals or something.

the labor is what sucks. A dealership or reputable mechanic will charge a lot to change the synchro.

all the K trannies have 'issues', people complain of weakness or problems shifting, yadda, its true, but you can beat on them too. every tranny is different, some will take the abuse, some wont.

you do not need to upgrade trannies unless you want a six speed. it is not any stronger than your 5 spd.

if you have the $$$, I say buy a tranny on here, the same you have, a 5 speed from an EP3. you can get one for like $600 shipped, then buy a helms manual and learn to rebuild the tranny you have.

your friend didnt really screw you, but he didnt tell you the whole truth either, and he might not have done it on purpose, but the synchro would/will fail and evetually you'll eat that gear alive.

if you are looking for more power, you'll want to do a motor swap yes, but then you'll be spending even more $$. do you have Kpro? what is your budget for more power?

hope I was helpful, i'll watch this thread, check back, and try to answer more for ya.

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Old 01-24-2011, 12:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

Thanks colin. I literally have 3000 dollars right now. Also I'll be gettin my tax return. Yeah about the a2 sswap. How hard is it to go from the five to six. Especially since I would be going from the console shifter to the floor. Isn't the new shift linkage distance, location, the fact my whole dash from the radio down needs to be changed gonna be a bitch?
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

no no no.

you dont have to switch from 'dash' to floor. you keep the same shifter cables. reverse will be 6th. you'll have to be careful shifting though, as you wont have a reverse lockout. everything is still the same. the 6 speed transmission bolts right up to your A3 motor.

but if you have 3000, you have enough to get an A2/z1/z3 swap, esp once your tax return comes. you even have enough for a k24a2 tsx longblock, which is even better.

my recommendation:

save your 3000 for now.
get your tax return
save a little more $
baby your car, it'll last.

Buy the following things:

k24a2 longblock with higher mileage, like 70 k. 1800-2200
6spd k20a2/z1/z3 transmission 600-800
get a new clutch 450
reuse your stock flywheel resurfaced 75
buy krpo, used, on here 850-950

you will be able to do it. just be patient.

plus, dont forget, you will be able to sell the motor and transmission in your car now. it might seem slow, but people buy them. those trannies are wanted by people for longer gears, and the k20a3 motor are wanted by people racing in the honda challenge H2 class. you could get 400-1000 selling both of those things depending how bad your trans is and how many miles are on your motor.

this thread will help you.
https://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=81455

read around, there is a TON of info on this website. If you need help finding a motor let me know, we get them a bit here at the shop.

-Colin
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Old 01-24-2011, 03:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

06+ k24a2 is worth the wait.
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Old 01-24-2011, 03:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

Thanks again. Yeah I baby her. I guess I might start looking into the a2 swap.
The K24 swap looks to be really detailed. And like I said I don't know much of anything about fixing cars, and the last time I tried to have a mechanic in my small town do a swap it turned into a nightmare. I had a b16a2 put into my d15b7 or 8 I can't remember what the crappy Canadian econo engine was. And since I didn't know anything about what all parts I needed and everything, and my mechanic is just a general mechanic he didn't know anything about doing the swap outside of just putting on parts I gave him.
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

Colin, I can't find the stock 5 speed like I have. If u know of an actual link could u post or pm it to me.
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:39 PM   #8
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

Mr. M. Stanky - Go to the forum called "Parts for sale". Go to the tab that asks "Search this forum". Click on it and go to "advanced search". Type in the box "transmission" and check the box that says "In titles only". A list of for sale threads will come up. Look for the ones that say "EP3" or "5speed". Look to see how long the seller has been on K20a.org, his post count and if he's posted his references. Let another knowledgeable member know before you buy so he can scope it out and ask any questions you haven't.
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

The k24a2 swap is no more detailed than a k20a2/z1/z3 swap. Theres maybe 8 other things you have to change, things that are very worth changing to do the swap.

If I thought it was too much to do, i'd tell you. So would others.

and Kevin is right about the transmission. you'll find them.
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:38 AM   #10
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

this is the same transmission as yours...

https://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=85935

these are just examples I found for you to give an idea of price on these...

https://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread...ghlight=tranny

https://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread...ghlight=tranny

https://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread...ghlight=tranny

also, if you place a want to buy for a 5 speed tranny, people will come out of the woodwork, just becareful though. and do not buy from someone who just Pm's you an offer and has zero posts. Its a scam or stolen or something is up. use your head and common sense and good luck.

read around more on the forum, you'll see all kinds of info worth knowing.
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:11 AM   #11
mooky_stank
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

Thanks McCoy and Colin. I had been looking on my own, but the only truly reputable things I thought I found were these two from K20Tuned LLC:

https://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread...t=transmission

https://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread...t=transmission

I'm gonna PM them and find out what they have atm.

Also I found this K20z1 tranny on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/k20Z1...item2eb2c511cd

But if you guys say that all the K series trannys have the same gear issues I'll probably go with the a3 with the 06+ LSD in it. Just so I can have the easiest swap out.
Thank you all very much for your help,
Mooky
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Old 01-28-2011, 08:37 PM   #12
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Exclamation Re: To be, or not to be

Update:

I've talked with Dale at K20Tuned LLC, and he's gonna hook me up with an EP3 tranny with the 06+ LSD in it.

After I save up my money I will do the K24a2 swap, I've been researching, and although CJM found a great link for me. I found a great even more thorough thread for anyone looking for complete K20a3 to K24a swap instructions, DIY. <-- That should do nicefully for any future searchers as it was hard to find anything that specific in the searches. If an admin reads this post and can change the title of the thread, it would help as well. Forgive my aspirations to Shakespeare, I guess I was being overdramatic

http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...A2-swap-thread

Hopefully this thread, and the one I have started here will help somebody else along the way. Once again thank you all very much for your help. It is nice to have a community of other people to share my interests with and to learn from.

Peace,
Mooky

Last edited by mooky_stank; 01-28-2011 at 08:44 PM.. Reason: Wouldn't you like to know
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Old 01-28-2011, 08:47 PM   #13
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

here are more helpful threads, i did a k24a2 swap in my ep3 a few months ago

http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...-Swap-Comments

http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...red&highlight=

http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...t-s-for-K20-24
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Old 01-28-2011, 10:02 PM   #14
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

Any K series transmission can last you a long time and free of trouble. Learn to place the transmission into gear and practice good clutch modulation. Have a different hand position for each gear selected. Don't shift miss !!

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Old 01-30-2011, 11:41 PM   #15
mooky_stank
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

Lol, thanks again mccoy.

Ya I think the poor little tranny I have was put through a lot of abuse. I got the ret. mechanic who's gonna help me to actually drive it today. He was shaking his head a lot. And that was while he was sitting still just feeling each gear. Then once we started driving it did the crunch into third, and we both did the pained "aaahhh." Then he explained what all was wrong... sounded like greek right now. Lol, but I'm sure once I actually get inside one it will be easier to understand when I can see it.

With my new tranny I was thinking about getting the synchrotech full synchro set to replace the wonderful oem ones, to hopefully prevent this from happening again any time soon. Has anyone had any experience with their products?

Also I have spoken with dale K20Tuned and he gave me the vin # today and is going to have pictures for me by Monday or Tuesday. He has been nothing but helpful and patient, as I have been fairly annoying.

Oh and my friend said the guy who had my car before and modified it put a fuel chip on it and that it has been tuned. I asked him wth he meant by fuel chip and mentioned kpro but he had no idea. Does anyone know what he might be talking about? And if the car has been tuned could it have been tuned w/o kpro? Any input is appreciated. Of course I'm going to find the ecu and see if its stock or what, but if it is some kind of fuel chip I'm assuming it probably is inside the ecu or some other strange location.

Thanks,
Mooky
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Old 01-31-2011, 02:15 PM   #16
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

Bump for any insight.
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Old 01-31-2011, 02:23 PM   #17
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooky_stank View Post
Bump for any insight.
i sat down with a manual and a precision straight edge and rebuilt my transmission. it shifts flawlessly. its a 6 speed and i put an oem dc5r lsd in it along with the jdm final drive that was on the old open diff. there is no reason you could not do the same, or anyone else for that matter.

these are not difficult transmissions or engines for that matter. the shims are coded like the factory rod/crank bearings.
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Old 01-31-2011, 03:05 PM   #18
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

Well I don't know if you saw it in my previous posts, but I am NOT mechanically inclined. I don't know how to do any work on my car besides change the oil, and maybe one or two other small things. If I were to take apart a transmission it would take me a while to do all of it. Aside from getting all of the necessary tools, jacks, jackstands, etc.. Plus all of the parts that I would need to repair my transmission that I have now would be around the same of just getting a low mileage tranny. IMO

Remember not everyone can take apart an engine or transmission and immediately understand how it works, and not everyone may have had someone to show them how to work on cars, and how they work, etc.. I'm just figuring this stuff out as I go along.

Just try to think of things in a different perspective.

Thanks,

Mooky
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Old 01-31-2011, 03:10 PM   #19
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

you have not tried it. you are speculating that you can not do it.
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Old 01-31-2011, 03:27 PM   #20
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Default Re: To be, or not to be

True, I do doubt myself alot. But if I were to try the car would probably be down for a long time, and right now I have work and school, and then in the summer I'll have work, school, and an internship. And unfortunately I don't live where there is public transit, and I live out in the boonies so transportation is necessary.

But hey if you're saying you wanna help me, come on down to Florida... Lol. I keed I keed.

Thanks,
Mooky
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