IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block - Page 2 - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:07 AM   #21
jdmek910
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

nuff with the bickering .... we ALL already know churches dyno reads high... so why keep bringing it up... regardless thats damn near 300whp and for a stock block that is realllllllllly impressive... IPS strong-arming them all
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:09 AM   #22
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

fabulous. I can't wait to strap a set into my motor.
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:19 AM   #23
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

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Originally Posted by jdmek910 View Post
nuff with the bickering .... we ALL already know churches dyno reads high... so why keep bringing it up... regardless thats damn near 300whp and for a stock block that is realllllllllly impressive... IPS strong-arming them all
Its not a stock block
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:50 AM   #24
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

this is very nice to see. Can we get atleast a hint at if this was on pump gas? The "hot" definition is like a built street motor, correct?
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:56 AM   #25
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

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Originally Posted by nikos View Post
I 100% disagree with your statement. It is completely wrong in my opinion.

What is more reliable as a constant? A dyno machine or a car? Sure dynos around the country are different and read differently, even dynojets.. we know that already.

But you cannot sit here and tell me that you can judge a motor by the times and mph it will produce. What about driver skill? Track conditions? Tire size and condition> Gearing? Tune? Weight? Aero? Elevation? Weather conditions? Clutch being used? Are you serious?

So basically what you are saying is that you would buy a motor based on the times it has produced on a car rather than the numbers it made on a constant dyno that you have used in the past?

So when you were racing the ITB 54mm EG, you run 12.5 seconds.. So since people are posting stock k20a2 motors running 12.2, that means that a stock k20a2 is better than a 280whp k24a with ITBS.. makes sense now…


So it gives false hope ehh? lol Hope is such a bad thing..

300whp real dynojet is possible on a 2 liter, I have no doubt. The only question is who has the time and money to get it done and for what reason since the k24a can give out 300 easier with the bigger stroke and bigger displacement.

So please, don't tell me that times only matter. Everything matters.
Dyno numbers are easy to make, trap speeds don't lie.

Dyno machines are just a measuring instrument. Therefore, comparing a car to a dyno is not a valid comparison. It puzzled me a little...

Anybody serious about drag racing knows track times are vastly more important than dyno numbers. Dynos are good for a base map. What about dyno room heat, humidity, oxygen content, altitude, barometric pressure, cooling fan placement, fan wind velocity, wheel weights, gear ratio setup, correction factor, etc.

What were the weights in his 12.5 ITB car vs. the 12.2 stock motor cars? Again, given known weight and known trap speed, a more accurate determination of actual horsepower produced, actually driving a car down the track, can be made.

It's not so much false hope as false information...there's obviously plenty of sheep and they always seem to flock to wherever others tell them despite what logic and rational thinking may infer.

I agree with you on the 2 Liter, it's already been done. But when you say 2 Liter, do you mean 1998cc, 2212cc or something in between? When you reveal only the stock stroke and leave out the only other variable in determining a 4 cylinder engine's displacement, one tends to want to assume a larger than stock bore, which would suggest a larger than stated 2 liters dispalcement.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:04 PM   #26
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

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this is very nice to see. Can we get atleast a hint at if this was on pump gas? The "hot" definition is like a built street motor, correct?
+1 i think the "hot" its for atleast a 12.5 c.r motor stock stroke, high cr pistons, if i remember reading correctly.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:08 PM   #27
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

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Dyno machines are just a measuring instrument. Therefore, comparing a car to a dyno is not a valid comparison. It puzzled me a little...
You are basically saying that a trap speed of a car can be used as measurement of its power.

So how do we compare 2 identical motors in 2 different cars? A dyno is a tool as you said and it helps us see how changes affect the motor. If you keep going back to the same dyno, especially a dynapack, you have a pretty good idea where your motor stands compared to other motors on the same dyno.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:20 PM   #28
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

so what happens if/when the finish line isn't at the 1320' goes 189mph or less than a minute around willow springs? Drag racing is a good indication and exhibition of power within its context, however just like sprinters have their place in track & field - that isn't the only event, moreover, does not diminish the accomplishment of others horizontally competitive. It is visibly apparent that this motor was built for endurance, a long distance runner, so to speak, as noted by Nikos' source of information.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:26 PM   #29
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

its math


you take 1320feet it takes X amount of power to move Y amount of mass to this speed.. no? far fetched? theres always variables in the equasion but the same can be said for anything else
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:30 PM   #30
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

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Originally Posted by nikos View Post
You are basically saying that a trap speed of a car can be used as measurement of its power.

So how do we compare 2 identical motors in 2 different cars? A dyno is a tool as you said and it helps us see how changes affect the motor. If you keep going back to the same dyno, especially a dynapack, you have a pretty good idea where your motor stands compared to other motors on the same dyno.
No, that is not what I said at all. Trap speed AND WEIGHT of a given car are two variables that can be used in an equation, which the solution to, is indicative of the actual horsepower being put down during a quarter mile run. So I guess trap speed can be used as an INDICATION of power.

I made that statement in response to your question, "What is more reliable as a constant? A dyno machine or a car?," in which you try to draw a comparison between using a dyno or a car as a measuring device for the horsepower produced from an engine in a car. It just seemed like a weird question with weird solution choices.

I agree with your last paragraph, but that wasn't the original question...

Every race team tweaks at the track. Like I said, dynos are a good base line tuning tool. Take it to the track, log the run, make adjustments, go faster This applies to ALL forms of racing.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:32 PM   #31
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

^^ i like how many times you said weird...


its weird, hahaha
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:33 PM   #32
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^^ i like how many times you said weird...


its weird, hahaha
your face is weird
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:35 PM   #33
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

agreed^^

but the bitches dig it

hahahah BACK ON TOPPPIIIC

BUMP FOR IPS
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:57 PM   #34
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

The formula is: hp = weight / (ET / 5.825)^3
The formula is: hp = weight * (speed / 234)^3


pretty simple math except for the cubed root.

Changs car according to the calculation made about
550 according to the ET formula
770 according to the mph formula

His car dynoed 830 and track tuning probably brought it up to about 900whp. Unfortunately for high hp turbo fwd cars the formula works as an average hp put down to get to the 1/4 mile. (We were only putting down about 300whp in 1st, 450 in second etc.) With an NA setup the formula should work much more accurately as you just have one power setting.

I havent kept up with Norris' times much but I last remember him running around a 9.4 @ 142 while weighing about 1650(probably wrong but its another example)

The formula seems to work well for his car..

ET: 393hp
mph 369hp

try it, its fun!
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:58 PM   #35
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

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Originally Posted by nikos View Post
I 100% disagree with your statement. It is completely wrong in my opinion.

What is more reliable as a constant? A dyno machine or a car? Sure dynos around the country are different and read differently, even dynojets.. we know that already.

But you cannot sit here and tell me that you can judge a motor by the times and mph it will produce. What about driver skill? Track conditions? Tire size and condition> Gearing? Tune? Weight? Aero? Elevation? Weather conditions? Clutch being used? Are you serious?

So basically what you are saying is that you would buy a motor based on the times it has produced on a car rather than the numbers it made on a constant dyno that you have used in the past?

So when you were racing the ITB 54mm EG, you run 12.5 seconds.. So since people are posting stock k20a2 motors running 12.2, that means that a stock k20a2 is better than a 280whp k24a with ITBS.. makes sense now…


So it gives false hope ehh? lol Hope is such a bad thing..

300whp real dynojet is possible on a 2 liter, I have no doubt. The only question is who has the time and money to get it done and for what reason since the k24a can give out 300 easier with the bigger stroke and bigger displacement.

So please, don't tell me that times only matter. Everything matters.
Like you stated there are variables to both the dyno and track. But how many times have you seen a person claiming xxx hp and then they run alot slower and with a low trap speed. Also I don't know where you got that I ran a 12.5 in my car with ITB. I have always been able to justify the hp on the dyno with the trap speeds at the track.

I wasn't trying to make this a thread about dyno #/ to tack #. Was just trying to clarify for some noob that dyno # don't mean everything. Use the dyno as a tool and then fine tune at the track!!!!!


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Old 09-09-2008, 01:06 PM   #36
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

Quote:
Originally Posted by st00pid View Post
The formula is: hp = weight / (ET / 5.825)^3
The formula is: hp = weight * (speed / 234)^3


pretty simple math except for the cubed root.

Changs car according to the calculation made about
550 according to the ET formula
770 according to the mph formula

His car dynoed 830 and track tuning probably brought it up to about 900whp. Unfortunately for high hp turbo fwd cars the formula works as an average hp put down to get to the 1/4 mile. (We were only putting down about 300whp in 1st, 450 in second etc.) With an NA setup the formula should work much more accurately as you just have one power setting.

I havent kept up with Norris' times much but I last remember him running around a 9.4 @ 142 while weighing about 1650(probably wrong but its another example)

The formula seems to work well for his car..

ET: 393hp
mph 369hp

try it, its fun!

Tried it on mine and came up with pretty close to what i make!!!

Good formula.

JL 1675lbs

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ET:428
MPH:422


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Old 09-09-2008, 01:14 PM   #37
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

Hehe, its the bitter ips gang again. Stoopid, next time a customer asks for a dyno sheet, give them the formula instead.
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:18 PM   #38
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Hehe, its the bitter ips gang again. Stoopid, next time a customer asks for a dyno sheet, give them the formula instead.
What does this have to do with IPS again?

You made statements that were off as usual. People that can provide correct information did so with mathematical proof. I don't even know what you're trying to say with that last remark...anything else you'd like to add?
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:24 PM   #39
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

Umm no.. First.. Im not bitter towards IPS. I never mentioned anything at ALL about a company, car or anything other than showing you that the track does dictate what the hp of a car is based off of a simple formula.

Second, One of the FIRST questions out of my customers mouths when I give them the dyno sheet is, "What do you think the car will run?"

I can estimate the weight of a car, use the dyno sheet I just gave them and come up with something that will be fairly close. I also use my experiences from racing and tuning to be able to tell someone what they will trap within 4-5mph.

So Ill start handing out timeslips to go with the dyno. In this case the egg comes before the chicken.
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:32 PM   #40
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Default Re: IPS Mark3 Preliminary Results on built k20a2 block

I wouldnt say bitter IPS gang yet!!! Im not in here lol

But a hot 2.0ltr could be 14.5c/r, 90mm bore with a stock k20 crank in a k24 block. Just a bunch of dyno sheets show up. Any IPS world champion cars? Ive searched but I cant find any!!! And Im not being a dick, im being serious.

Besides loan.





oh wait, my bad, i'm sorry totally forgot about Norris - the final NHRA Sport Compact All Motor World Champion in 2007. No more Wally's, this was the last of the mohicans. What can I say, I eat crow yet again!

Also, I'm wrong about saying that a 2.0L could have a 90mm bore with an 86mm stroke in a K24 block. What was I thinking? Man, that would actually displace 2188cc!

Last edited by Skunk2FTW; 09-09-2008 at 02:07 PM.. Reason: found one!!
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