Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ??? - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum
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Old 06-27-2007, 12:05 PM   #1
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Default Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

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Originally Posted by Skunk2TS View Post
...with the exaust cam gear utilized, the "dyno battle" is much different. These are just the stage 1's (green line) vs the K2's. The stage 2's made about 7 hp more on the big lobes

wow, their stage 1 cam was on par/slightly better than the IPSk2's?
what type of k20a/k20a2 setup was this on?
does anyone know the other of this car/setup?

not bad for the price if this is true. i'm looking for the best cam to give me power under the 8000rpm mark, since revving higher seems to make tensioners fail much faster.
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Old 06-27-2007, 12:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

Heres a link to the original thread with motor specs

https://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25266
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Old 06-27-2007, 01:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

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Heres a link to the original thread with motor specs

https://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25266
why did he go with your stage 1's if he originally planned to use your stage 2's?

just curious..
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Old 06-27-2007, 01:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

They wanted to test the cams to see what the differences would be on his particular setup. I believe he will be posting the stage 2 graph in the next few days
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Old 06-27-2007, 02:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

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They wanted to test the cams to see what the differences would be on his particular setup. I believe he will be posting the stage 2 graph in the next few days
i'm fine with the results of the stage 1's...big from me.
i would prefer not to get an exhaust cam sprocket, but hey if it makes that kind of power..i'm in.
my goal was to find the best cam that provided the most power under 8k rpms. i would prefer not to rev so high on my daily and have my timing tensioner not fail so fast.
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Old 06-28-2007, 05:53 AM   #6
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

Unless you are doing autocross/track racing I wouldn't be that concerned about the Tensioner. You can use a redline of 8400RPMs. I hit mine (8600) daily

You could always upgrade yours to ease your mind. Something like this..
http://www.clubrsx.com/cr/TDR-14510-K20-000.html
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

Was the adj. exhaust cam gear used on the K2's?
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:36 AM   #8
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

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Originally Posted by guu-sama View Post
Unless you are doing autocross/track racing I wouldn't be that concerned about the Tensioner. You can use a redline of 8400RPMs. I hit mine (8600) daily

You could always upgrade yours to ease your mind. Something like this..
http://www.clubrsx.com/cr/TDR-14510-K20-000.html
well i might do a drag race from a stoplight ;)

there are people that have even the toda timing chain tensioner fail.
it's just a stock one that has an upgraded spring inside, and some people are doing that themselves...and still having their timing tensioners failing on them.

even if i go to 8600 daily, the skunk2 stg1 still makes more power under almost the entire 8700rpm range.
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:42 AM   #9
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

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Originally Posted by IPS-DC5 View Post
Was the adj. exhaust cam gear used on the K2's?
IPS didn't design k2's to work with an adjustable cam gear, so i don't even know if that would benefit the k2...

otherwise, i'm pretty sure ron would have came out with adjustable cam gears as well.
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:53 AM   #10
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

K2's were designed on the proper centerline, unlike Skunks, but there is always a small amount of tweaking that could unlock more power, and it would depending on the motor/setup.
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:55 AM   #11
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

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Originally Posted by IPS-DC5 View Post
K2's were designed on the proper centerline, unlike Skunks, but there is always a small amount of tweaking that could unlock more power, and it would depending on the motor/setup.
so you're saying ron left out untapped power by not using adjustable cam gears? or what tweaking would you suggest, aside from tuning, that would enable the IPS cams to make more power?

proper centerline??? don't you mean the k2's were designed for plug and play with no adjustment of the cam gears?
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:07 AM   #12
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

just refer to the original post skunk2 posted.. There is no point talking about this at the same time on different threads. The questions you are asking have been answered by several people.
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:08 AM   #13
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

No, you only need an adj. gear if you want to squease every last hp out of them. With Skunk cams right now you have to buy a cam gear to get the same/better/close to K2's out of the box.

So K2's can use a adj. gear but it is not needed for everyone.
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:09 AM   #14
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

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just refer to the original post skunk2 posted.. There is no point talking about this at the same time on different threads. The questions you are asking have been answered by several people.
Thank you.
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:15 AM   #15
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

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Originally Posted by IPS-DC5 View Post
No, you only need an adj. gear if you want to squease every last hp out of them. With Skunk cams right now you have to buy a cam gear to get the same/better/close to K2's out of the box.

So K2's can use a adj. gear but it is not needed for everyone.
why hasn't anyone done that after spending say 1600 on the 8620's?
the cam gears could be had through a dealer for what, under 200 bucks?
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:19 AM   #16
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

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Originally Posted by nikos View Post
just refer to the original post skunk2 posted.. There is no point talking about this at the same time on different threads. The questions you are asking have been answered by several people.
i figured i'd get more accurate and speedy responses here...and i did. that other thread was not in general k series related talk. and i don't see where my questions have been answered about the cams gears and why k2's dont utilize them, but if you can show me i'll definitely be happy to read the answer
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:38 AM   #17
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

We can talk about it here again...

The exhaus cam gear is not a mod that anyone can do without a dyno at hand and proper knowledge of what to do.. Yes, it is true... the K2 and other cams in the industry have incorparated the centerline retard.

It is also hard to generalize and assume that gains will be seen on most K motors.. that is not the case... On a 350whp motor, playing with the centerline can give 15 to 20whp more... so... that is a lot... but as you go down to 200whp motors... it really depends on the header...

this is what I posted in rensponse to skunk2 saying that the K2 will not make more power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skunk2TS
To be clear, im not trying to bash or anything, just want to make sure you're aware of why the k2's wont make any more power with an exhaust cam gear retarded. The centerline is already at 104.
Tony, I am aware of the centerline of the K2. Instead of forcing customers to buy the exhaust gear, IPS integrated the retard in the grind. I know that.. I am not sure why Skunk2 didn't do that. I mean I know why... it is a rhetorical question... to sell more parts

The K2 could make more power with an adjustable gear with the right header. I am sure you know this. A incorrect header can't take advantage of a retarded K2.
So then if you want to fine tune for that setup PRC/rcrew header you'll have to explore .5 to 1 degree at a time all the while maintaining lobe separation relative to the intake cam angles so if you advance 1 degree on the cam exhaust then add 1 degree to all the cam angles on the intake and bracket from there tuning it correctly is very tedious and then once you've gone through all of that you can bracket the intake vtc after finding out where the exhaust cam really wants to be for a given setup.

The simple fact that they/you didn't do so for this combination
If you really want to go head's up then go head's up keep all the variables controlled. We can set it up again. IPSk2 8620 K2 with skunk2 stage 1. If you really think the the stage 1 cams is capable of making more power than the K2.. oh well... good luck.. I think SKunk2 needs a new line with better midrange against the IPS.. my opinion
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

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Originally Posted by nikos View Post
We can talk about it here again...

The exhaus cam gear is not a mod that anyone can do without a dyno at hand and proper knowledge of what to do.. Yes, it is true... the K2 and other cams in the industry have incorparated the centerline retard.

It is also hard to generalize and assume that gains will be seen on most K motors.. that is not the case... On a 350whp motor, playing with the centerline can give 15 to 20whp more... so... that is a lot... but as you go down to 200whp motors... it really depends on the header...

this is what I posted in rensponse to skunk2 saying that the K2 will not make more power



Tony, I am aware of the centerline of the K2. Instead of forcing customers to buy the exhaust gear, IPS integrated the retard in the grind. I know that.. I am not sure why Skunk2 didn't do that. I mean I know why... it is a rhetorical question... to sell more parts

The K2 could make more power with an adjustable gear with the right header. I am sure you know this. A incorrect header can't take advantage of a retarded K2.
So then if you want to fine tune for that setup PRC/rcrew header you'll have to explore .5 to 1 degree at a time all the while maintaining lobe separation relative to the intake cam angles so if you advance 1 degree on the cam exhaust then add 1 degree to all the cam angles on the intake and bracket from there tuning it correctly is very tedious and then once you've gone through all of that you can bracket the intake vtc after finding out where the exhaust cam really wants to be for a given setup.

The simple fact that they/you didn't do so for this combination
If you really want to go head's up then go head's up keep all the variables controlled. We can set it up again. IPSk2 8620 K2 with skunk2 stage 1. If you really think the the stage 1 cams is capable of making more power than the K2.. oh well... good luck.. I think SKunk2 needs a new line with better midrange against the IPS.. my opinion
now that's what i'm talkin about
'preciate the input
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Old 06-28-2007, 08:12 AM   #19
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

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Originally Posted by nikos View Post
It is also hard to generalize and assume that gains will be seen on most K motors.. that is not the case... On a 350whp motor, playing with the centerline can give 15 to 20whp more... so... that is a lot... but as you go down to 200whp motors... it really depends on the header...
Well this is on a 220 or so whp motor with a standard premium header


...and yes, it is fairly easy to generalize and assume that moving the centerline to the optimum range will net significant gains on most K motors.
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:08 PM   #20
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Default Re: Skunk2 Stage1 versus IPS K2 ???

and this is on a 11.5:1 2.2l K20 w/ stage 2 and stage 3 cams: what you guys think??

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