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Old 06-14-2007, 12:37 PM   #21
jon v
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

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Originally Posted by HotWheelz
anyways I had to post something to let people know i'm still around LOL

shit-distruber-extrordinaire! in tha house yo! LMFAO...
Gotta love the ones who mix things up a little...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.E.G.
think about what you are saying here. educated people are saying that some portions of this safety device are in direct conflict with this little thing called physics and you are willing to ignore that simply because of the cage builders reputation? that sounds like religion to me. welcome to the church of fanboyology.
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Old 06-14-2007, 12:42 PM   #22
Rick Solis
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Here is a question, something that goes with this topic....

What certifications does the company in which IPS purhcases their Iron and Billet cores through hold?

And Im not refering to the grinder, Im refering to the company who makes the cores.
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Old 06-14-2007, 12:44 PM   #23
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

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Originally Posted by Rick Solis
Here is a question, what certifications does the company in which IPS purhcases their Iron and Billet cores through hold?
Working for a large Aerospace company I know exactly where you are going with this... We just finished up our AS9100 audit a few weeks ago...

It all depends on the industry standard, and at what level any given company decides to set there standards at.

I was very surprised when I started working here. We make the worlds most advanced jet fighters, sometimes with technology/machines that have been around for 20+ years. they are old and dirty but they get the job done, and they get it done right. Quality control is excellent and parts are inspected after every stage of the processing, and thats why we easily pass our AS9100 and similar audits every time...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.E.G.
think about what you are saying here. educated people are saying that some portions of this safety device are in direct conflict with this little thing called physics and you are willing to ignore that simply because of the cage builders reputation? that sounds like religion to me. welcome to the church of fanboyology.

Last edited by jon v; 06-14-2007 at 12:49 PM..
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Old 06-14-2007, 01:05 PM   #24
Rick Solis
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

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Originally Posted by jon v
and thats why we easily pass our AS9100 and similar audits every time...
As i said before, certifications like that arent just handed out. Overseas companies who hold several and continue to pass certification audits year after year are passing for good reason. Quality issues with products made from china and taiwan based manufacturing facilities are due private companies who hire these manufacturers to produce their parts, these private parties and their lack of (insert just about anything you can think of here) are so quick to just remove the product from one box, put it in another and ship it out. Almost all instances with, Ill use connecting rods for example... Connecting rods. A lot of the times US companies will send a sample OEM rod out to china or to a broker and have them RE that rod, adapt the specs to their existing forgings and call it a day. I have RARELY seen a company take the time and put up the cost to do the engineering themselves, to QC their products, to study and correct variances. Even more in depth, provide their own materials, bushings, rod bolts, etc. Its expensive as shit to do things this way, but like I said, its all up to what you make of it.

The quality in materials and manufacturing in general is absolutely available in china and taiwan. Its not cheap, it does come with a price. 9.97 out of 10 people arent willing to pay for it.
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Old 06-14-2007, 01:09 PM   #25
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

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Originally Posted by HotWheelz
..another shameless plug to promote ips cams quality vs the rest,
lololololol made my day
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Old 06-14-2007, 03:26 PM   #26
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Solis
Here is a question, something that goes with this topic....

What certifications does the company in which IPS purhcases their Iron and Billet cores through hold?

And Im not refering to the grinder, Im refering to the company who makes the cores.
All the comments here are sort of missing the point.
The quality in machining and materials is one thing.

The cam profile that makes the most power,
for a given application is THE POINT.

Buy the cam that works best for your application,
if thats some cheap stuff,
then that's what you need and get.

Now, if you are for making the most power,
then you are after a better quality, engineered part,
thats not a "COPY" of a well engineered quality part.

And, I thing we can agree Asia is very good at copying things,
not engineering new stuff.

LHP
www.haywardperformance.com
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Old 06-14-2007, 04:27 PM   #27
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

I thought back in the day at least some of the iron cores for IPS cams came from foreign origin? dunno for sure. "made in USA" or overseas isn't always clear

where does Brian Crower get his stuff? cuz they're cheap and seem to be well made
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Old 06-14-2007, 04:39 PM   #28
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

So by Asia, I'm assuming you mean Japan as well. Look this is an increasingly Globalized industrial world and products made in Asia are increasingly being used in North America, even the world. China's biggest trading partner is the EU, and then the United States. People once commented the same thing about Japanese technology a loong time ago, look where they are at now. At the forefront. China, is an economic prowess, that is constantly improving its industry, manufacturing process, all the while cutting down the costs. Look it, these days, most things are made in China to begin with. Just take a good look at most things around your house. You'd be surprised, but yet we still consumer them.

I do agree there is a difference between say cams, and crockery, but I think these countries apply the same manufacturing quality processes to the things they are contracted out to do by bigger companies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHP
All the comments here are sort of missing the point.
The quality in machining and materials is one thing.

The cam profile that makes the most power,
for a given application is THE POINT.

Buy the cam that works best for your application,
if thats some cheap stuff,
then that's what you need and get.

Now, if you are for making the most power,
then you are after a better quality, engineered part,
thats not a "COPY" of a well engineered quality part.

And, I thing we can agree Asia is very good at copying things,
not engineering new stuff.

LHP
www.haywardperformance.com
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Old 06-14-2007, 04:41 PM   #29
Rick Solis
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHP
All the comments here are sort of missing the point.
The quality in machining and materials is one thing.

The cam profile that makes the most power,
for a given application is THE POINT.

Buy the cam that works best for your application,
if thats some cheap stuff,
then that's what you need and get.

Now, if you are for making the most power,
then you are after a better quality, engineered part,
thats not a "COPY" of a well engineered quality part.

And, I thing we can agree Asia is very good at copying things,
not engineering new stuff.

LHP
www.haywardperformance.com
Lance, the point of the original post wasnt to say copying was bad, but to say anything manufactured in china/taiwan was of poor quality which just isnt the case. manufacturing facilities themselves have absolutely no desire to copy anything. the copying comes from the private companies who enlist the manufacturing services from these facilities. The private companies generally supply a sample and chose to have the sample part recreated in the most in-expensive fashion possible.

Copying is an entirely different can of worms in itself.

Chinese and even taiwanese manufactures are some of the best in the world, as Ive been saying, you get what your willing to pay for. if you want cheap, theyll give you cheap. if you want quality shit and are willing to pay for it and put the work in to get it, you can get that from them to. This has already been discussed but look at the certifications most of these facilities uphold. For anyone who works in manufacturing of any kind, you can attest to the stringent guidelines involved with attaining certain certifications. its no easy task. And for a thread to be started in efforts to knock all companies who outsource while attempting to praise a company who has products made in the states doesnt mean jack to me. As Ive said before, it is what you make of it. Thats really what it all boils down to.
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Old 06-14-2007, 05:21 PM   #30
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

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Originally Posted by HotWheelz
LMFAO, well to be quite honest, why would nikos send me an MSN to my personal laptop, to advise me of the intial post before a post was made? hmmmm talk about "WANTING" me to start shit LOL

besides I always tease on IPS because this whole forum only seems to be in their direction since other manufacturers get laughed at or ridiculed. So yeah why not... you don't see me bashing ips on any other forum eh? LMFAO and i have over 50 of them I visit



anyways I had to post something to let people know i'm still around LOL

shit-distruber-extrordinaire! in tha house yo! LMFAO...
So that is you on New Celica?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHP
All the comments here are sort of missing the point.
The quality in machining and materials is one thing.

The cam profile that makes the most power,
for a given application is THE POINT.

Buy the cam that works best for your application,
if thats some cheap stuff,
then that's what you need and get.

Now, if you are for making the most power,
then you are after a better quality, engineered part,
thats not a "COPY" of a well engineered quality part.

And, I thing we can agree Asia is very good at copying things,
not engineering new stuff.

LHP
www.haywardperformance.com
When did copying come into play? When did designs and engineering come to play? The pictures are only of factories. He was commenting on manufacturing processes. The production, not the planning. Although they are very good at piracy.
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Old 06-14-2007, 05:37 PM   #31
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

rick solis speaks the truth.

china/taiwan manufacturers are known for making crap because most of their customers (like rick said, 99.7% of them) choose crap materials. you can take whatever you want to a china/taiwan manufacturer and tell them to make it for you. the first question you're gonna get from them is: what do you want it made of (steel, plastic, rubber, etc.)? what grade material (expensive, ok, cheap, cheaper, cheapest)? quantity (obviously, more is cheaper)? and like rick said, most will go with whatever will give them a higher profit margin and when that happens, you come out with a higher chance of bad quality or bad batches. knock "made in taiwan" all you want. if you knew where some of your "JDM" parts came from, you might not knock "made in taiwan" as much. believe me or not, ALOT of your higher end "JDM" parts are "MIT"
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:06 PM   #32
Rick Solis
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by pb16b
believe me or not, ALOT of your higher end "JDM" parts are "MIT"
Not just taiwan, china as well. As I said in my original post, a lot of OE manufacturers, Honda and others use or have used the same means of manufacturing as well.... As do/have some OE euro manufacturers.
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:08 PM   #33
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Damn! Niice safety equipment those dudes are using
Guess it isn't an issue if you've got 1.2 billion people waiting in line to work.
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:04 PM   #34
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

that looks like a mass production line, so i wonder what household name car make those parts are going into.
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:07 PM   #35
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

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Originally Posted by 911/RSX-s
Damn! Niice safety equipment those dudes are using
Guess it isn't an issue if you've got 1.2 billion people waiting in line to work.
litigation is nonexistent in most asian countries, lots of people in the US rip on lawyers, but without legal liability, you end up with a workplace that looks like that.
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:32 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by outersquare
litigation is nonexistent in most asian countries, lots of people in the US rip on lawyers, but without legal liability, you end up with a workplace that looks like that.
They're getting stricter. How was the US when they first started industrializing and heavy manufacturing? Same way. They're still catching up. Everything takes time. It'd be nice if they had regulation safety codes, but they'll enforce it when they really see the need to. I just feel sorry for the poor guys who have to suffer before they do.
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Old 06-14-2007, 08:36 PM   #37
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

holy cams batman!
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Old 06-14-2007, 09:00 PM   #38
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by RsxJai
How was the US when they first started industrializing and heavy manufacturing? Same way. They're still catching up. Everything takes time.
I don't have the 200 years to wait for someone in Taiwan to make decent cams
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Solis
And for a thread to be started in efforts to knock all companies who outsource while attempting to praise a company who has products made in the states doesnt mean jack to me. As Ive said before, it is what you make of it. Thats really what it all boils down to.
Thats right Rick, it is what you make it, so why are you making it a IPS vs Everyone thing? I can make it a Communism thing, or a child labor thing, OR, as a way to learn how shit is made. There are plenty of companies that make stuff in the USA, look at the domestic market performance industry.
I think the issue is the Quality Control. Not only at the foundry, but inspection of the product when it comes to the states. Stopping the problem before it occurs, that way there are no bad apples in a batch.
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Old 06-14-2007, 09:18 PM   #39
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikos
Am I the only one that thinks that this looks like these cams might not to be the best quality? But at least they are cheap!
amazing!....you can see "quality" and "price" all in a few pictures!!

let me tell you what i see, i see a machining area that has been planned to comply with some sort of quality standard whether it be ISO, TS, or QS. work areas are clean and organized and are clearly marked with signs. Work areas and traffic ways are clearly identified by different colored flooring.

as for the foundry....it looks like a foundry. when i worked in the aerospace industry, i had to qualify many factories to make sure they complied to our supplier qualification guidelines; guess what....they are all dirty. if you can find a squeeky clean foundry, you've found a foundry that has just been built and never been used. foundry work is a dirty job anywhere in the world and smaller parts are poured by hand.

Last edited by signalpuke; 06-14-2007 at 09:52 PM..
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Old 06-15-2007, 12:34 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signalpuke
I don't have the 200 years to wait for someone in Taiwan to make decent cams
Eh I say you know what you're getting into when you're buying the cams anyways. A few pictures doesn't determine how well cams are made. Are the machines the same ones they use in the US? Are the materials the same? The only real problem is quality control, which can't be told just from a few pictures. And GMSII said it very nicely. At least no one came in here trying to say domestic cars aren't as reliable and are built in the U.S as an counter argument to all the China/Taiwan judgement.
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