Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:57 AM   #1
nikos
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Default Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

This issue keep coming up, and I wanted to share some pics I found them on ghettoracer's album about a camshaft factory in Asia.. I assume it is Taiwan.


















Am I the only one that thinks that this looks like these cams might not to be the best quality? But at least they are cheap!

Last edited by nikos; 06-14-2007 at 07:09 AM..
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:16 AM   #2
SchueString Racing
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

If I worked there, I'd stuff a couple cores in my pants when I left work everyday. Doesn't look like they'll notice.hehe
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:34 AM   #3
HotWheelz
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

people eat at mcdonalds and burger king, and people make burgers and stuff without hairnets or gloves and in some wipe the sweat from the hot oven's with their sleeves or rub on pants.... yet you eat that crap.. it's like that everywheres...

another shameless plug to promote ips cams quality vs the rest, i have 'tawanese crap in my car' never broke on me yet, and i have usa crafted ones, to be honest I can't tell the difference.

i didn't see any vtec cores in this one. this could be renault or pegeaut for all a i care, which i don't... anyways i'm out to work on my car...
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:40 AM   #4
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Must be just you.. I can tell the difference between a steak and a bigmac.. lol

And noone mentioned IPS or rcrew or CONAN THE BARBARIAN'S blacksmith for that matter.
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:45 AM   #5
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotWheelz
another shameless plug to promote ips cams quality vs the rest,
Dude, you are so quick to bring IPS into any debate...Nikos didn't even mention IPS! You're like an IPS conspiracist or something. IPS isn't the only cam company who make cams in the U.S. you know. I think it would help to see some pictures of cam foundries in the U.S.A.
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:51 AM   #6
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

The first picture doesn't look to bad... Looks like they handle the finished product alright. I've never been to a foundry but I bet they aren't the cleanest nicest places around...

material quality is another story...
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:51 AM   #7
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

how much are this cams? are this k series cams?
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:52 AM   #8
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchueString Racing
Dude, you are so quick to bring IPS into any debate...Nikos didn't even mention IPS! You're like an IPS conspiracist or something. IPS isn't the only cam company who make cams in the U.S. you know. I think it would help to see some pictures of cam foundries in the U.S.A.
sorry my bad i jumped the gun... hut honestly, those could be diesel cams, could be anything, taiwan are producers of so many different types of stuff it's unreal, this place actually has equipment some places have people sitting on logs to do work, this isn't proof but simple pics of cam blanks, hell this could be the production line for mitsubishi??? maybe honda... it's just pics...
and I just find it wrong trying to knock taiwanese down because their inabilities to have a great foundry such as the states... if something i'd give proops to them to do what they do to survive. for them they don't know different. we do...
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Old 06-14-2007, 08:03 AM   #9
Andrie
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

I found that most Taiwanese/Chinese company have the technology to make quality products. The biggest problem with Chinese companies are quality control. They will not throw anything away. Even if it is bad quality products. They just sell it at lower prices, sort of like outlet. The problem is even the person doing the quality control have lower standard than the US, so lots of sub-par products goes through.
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Old 06-14-2007, 08:58 AM   #10
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Good debate. As Hotwheelz said, the facility might not be the greatest, but as long as the quality control is up, doesn't really matter how the product gets produced. I'm sure that the foundry is producing parts for a big auto manufacturer and not for the smaller private sector.

Personally, though, having a cam made in the United States or any other country with a really good industry generally translates into good quality, and better attention to detail as well, however one main factor is greatly increased -- the cost of production, which generally means a more expensive product.

Thats generally why and I'm going to bring Rcrew in the mix here, is Rcrew has become so successful, is because they out sourced their headers to a manufacturer overseas or so I've read.
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Old 06-14-2007, 09:12 AM   #11
Rick Solis
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikos
Am I the only one that thinks that this looks like these cams might not to be the best quality? But at least they are cheap!
The bottom line, Honda, Toyota and most japanese/European manufacturers outsource these days. The quality is there, the technology is there. It all comes with a price. Most companies these days rent conserned with spending a few extra $$$ per core to get a better product, they look at it as if they are decreasing their profit margins by doing so. Knocking the whole outsourced market by saying the products "loook cheap" is just poor assumption.

It all boils down to engineering, materials selection and quality control.

I deal with 2 companies from china, 1 from germany and 2 in the US. When it comes to quality of products, that has 100% to do with the company hiring the facilities to produce product and very little to do with the facilities themselves. Because like I said, were dealing with facilities that (in most cases) do nothing but private label manufacturing. They have every single certification you can possibly think of ( ISO 9001, ISO 14001, AS9100 TS16949, OHSAS 18001, etc, etc) which isnt something you can just have handed to you. The finished product can be amazing. The situation in which you run into, 9.97 times out of 10 these days is that the company that is contracting these facilities to produce their parts isnt conserned with materials selection, isnt conserned with machining variances, they are only conserned about profit margins and will select the least expensive routes to ensure they get what they are looking for.

I remember Steve (Omniman) going overseas pretty damn often. There is a prime example of someone taking the time and ensuring their product is produced at their levels and standards inteneded for the product. Steve was outsourcing oils from europe, different materials in the make up of his shocks. Thats not typical, he is in that .03 bracket of the 9.97 out of 10. I also remember talking to him about his custom Ampco 45 bushings he had made or his rods (when the idea was still there to do them). Again, another example.

It is what you make of it.
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Old 06-14-2007, 09:34 AM   #12
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotWheelz
people eat at mcdonalds and burger king, and people make burgers and stuff without hairnets or gloves and in some wipe the sweat from the hot oven's with their sleeves or rub on pants.... yet you eat that crap.. it's like that everywheres...

another shameless plug to promote ips cams quality vs the rest, i have 'tawanese crap in my car' never broke on me yet, and i have usa crafted ones, to be honest I can't tell the difference.

i didn't see any vtec cores in this one. this could be renault or pegeaut for all a i care, which i don't... anyways i'm out to work on my car...
Homer: Why have hamburger when you can have steak?
Lisa: Ugh.. I'm taking my name off this..

Sorry off topic but it just reminded me of it!
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Old 06-14-2007, 09:35 AM   #13
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Yeah I agree. These days it's all about profiteering. Companies seek a more cost effective approach in which their products can be mass produced all the while paying as little as possible. Quality can be maintained easily as long the contracting company outlines stringent guidelines for it. But think about it though, these days, everything is being made in China, Taiwan, India, and generally overseas. They obviously have a quality industry that churns out products that we consume over here in North America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Solis
The bottom line, Honda, Toyota and most japanese/European manufacturers outsource these days. The quality is there, the technology is there. It all comes with a price. Most companies these days rent conserned with spending a few extra $$$ per core to get a better product, they look at it as if they are decreasing their profit margins by doing so. Knocking the whole outsourced market by saying the products "loook cheap" is just poor assumption.

It all boils down to engineering, materials selection and quality control.

I deal with 2 companies from china, 1 from germany and 2 in the US. When it comes to quality of products, that has 100% to do with the company hiring the facilities to produce product and very little to do with the facilities themselves. Because like I said, were dealing with facilities that (in most cases) do nothing but private label manufacturing. They have every single certification you can possibly think of ( ISO 9001, ISO 14001, AS9100 TS16949, OHSAS 18001, etc, etc) which isnt something you can just have handed to you. The finished product can be amazing. The situation in which you run into, 9.97 times out of 10 these days is that the company that is contracting these facilities to produce their parts isnt conserned with materials selection, isnt conserned with machining variances, they are only conserned about profit margins and will select the least expensive routes to ensure they get what they are looking for.

I remember Steve (Omniman) going overseas pretty damn often. There is a prime example of someone taking the time and ensuring their product is produced at their levels and standards inteneded for the product. Steve was outsourcing oils from europe, different materials in the make up of his shocks. Thats not typical, he is in that .03 bracket of the 9.97 out of 10. I also remember talking to him about his custom Ampco 45 bushings he had made or his rods (when the idea was still there to do them). Again, another example.

It is what you make of it.
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Old 06-14-2007, 09:45 AM   #14
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

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Old 06-14-2007, 10:15 AM   #15
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Its kinda like tools...don't get the cheap Chinese crap, get the high quality Taiwanese stuff...thats where its at!
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Old 06-14-2007, 11:23 AM   #16
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

to be honest, there are some things that i would be willing to purchase from taiwan or china - i mean if its something like LEDs, HIDs or some car accessory item, then whatever, its cheap anyway

the question is, what are you willing to purchase for cheap from taiwan/china

i've seen headers and stuff FS and you can definately tell the quality difference in the welding from the chinese header vs. the american one

keep in mind china is playing catch up right now, they are where american was during the 1920s - 1950s era.

we've moved on to service and quality products, but undeniably china still produces NEAR decent quality products for way cheaper - since they do have the manpower
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Old 06-14-2007, 11:42 AM   #17
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

lol funny thread, i like how ips was brought in from nowhere lol
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Old 06-14-2007, 11:59 AM   #18
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

From japan i like cars, from China i like foods, from Taiwan and Korean i like girls now in United State all i like is American money jk

It really depend on how much you want to spend , there are alot of goodies from china and taiwan too, when it is time for me to buy cams i will buy the best bang for my pocket. as long as the companies will stand behind thier products.
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Old 06-14-2007, 12:18 PM   #19
Rick Solis
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Plenty
lol funny thread, i like how ips was brought in from nowhere lol
I thought that was the intention of this thread, to boast IPS for using a US based manufacturer for their cores and a US company for their grinding and a huge knock everyone who outsources, specifically skunk2???

At least thats how I took it.
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Old 06-14-2007, 12:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: Made in Taiwan vs Made in the USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Solis
I thought that was the intention of this thread, to boast IPS for using a US based manufacturer for their cores and a US company for their grinding and a huge knock everyone who outsources, specifically skunk2???

At least thats how I took it.
LMFAO, well to be quite honest, why would nikos send me an MSN to my personal laptop, to advise me of the intial post before a post was made? hmmmm talk about "WANTING" me to start shit LOL

besides I always tease on IPS because this whole forum only seems to be in their direction since other manufacturers get laughed at or ridiculed. So yeah why not... you don't see me bashing ips on any other forum eh? LMFAO and i have over 50 of them I visit



anyways I had to post something to let people know i'm still around LOL

shit-distruber-extrordinaire! in tha house yo! LMFAO...
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