***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s*** - Page 3 - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum
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Old 01-23-2007, 03:12 AM   #41
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

I would disagree with the approach of targeting the same A/F -- what people may interpret from that is that you were going for a less than optimal ratio for the K2s (the A/F on that last graph is high compared to what IPS would recommend). gotta see what the motor likes with the particular combination of parts to get the most out of the cams. in my own experience we were able to extend the power peak past 8500 rpm by playing with the A/F up top. good work though
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Old 01-23-2007, 03:57 AM   #42
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

Thanks for the clarification. I have nothing to do with the posting of the graphs but I do have to admit that I am happy they are finally out. You guys did all the hard work and your wish for a complete account should have been granted but you have to also consider all these people that have looked at the IPS vs Skunk2 thread dozens of times for results.

Personally, I know that Ron spent a considerable amount of time on the Q & A for this test and it would be a real shame for these answers not to see the light of day since Ron doesn't post anymore.

We appreciate your work and in my opinion we have learned some valuable lessons for the next cam test. I do not think it is a good idea to involve companies in these tests. The reason is very simple. Companies should be competing in a friendly manner through the value and quality of their products. Third party tests are valuable but also depend on the credibility of the 3rd party that is performing the test.

If you are going to officially involve both companies in a cam shout out, you need to be ready for the precautions. This market is hard as is... having companies calling each other out doesn't help anyone.. not even the end user. Companies don't need to work together.. but they can make a decent attempt to respect each other and give credit where it is due.

So is Skunk2 going to go back to the drawing board or are they content with these results? I highly doubt they are content. Same with IPS... Is IPS ready to update the K2 profile with revisions? These are the questions I ask myself after looking at these results.
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:19 AM   #43
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thanks guys great test
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:19 AM   #44
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

I think all that "drama" will be beneficial for all of us custumers, yes mabe the cams going to change sooner or later and then we will be on a incertitude zone again but in the main time the companies will try to make better cams and valvtrain.....so we all benefit of it.

So then thank you very much for all the R&D.
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:41 AM   #45
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsxmachine
I would disagree with the approach of targeting the same A/F -- what people may interpret from that is that you were going for a less than optimal ratio for the K2s (the A/F on that last graph is high compared to what IPS would recommend). gotta see what the motor likes with the particular combination of parts to get the most out of the cams. in my own experience we were able to extend the power peak past 8500 rpm by playing with the A/F up top. good work though
I have graphs of various a/f ratios for both cams. When both cams are running optimized a/f, the end result is the same. The only difference is the margin at certain places in the midrange.
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:51 AM   #46
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunky`
I have graphs of various a/f ratios for both cams. When both cams are running optimized a/f, the end result is the same. The only difference is the margin at certain places in the midrange.
Excellent job to both you and Vteckidd.

I'm impressed by the results and glad to see a 3rd person's info
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:17 AM   #47
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

I can't say I'm surpirsed with the results... It's not like anyone was expecting a 10whp difference or anything...

Nice job guys

I hope you made it home Ok and got some sleep Chunky...
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:17 AM   #48
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

wow great test

so I take it - it really was Omni-man who leaked the results??? can we find out.

edit - N/M
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:19 AM   #49
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

Mad props to both Chunky and Vteckidd. This is the kind of information, and they are the kind of members, that makes internet forums the invaluable resource they are.
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:26 AM   #50
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

Thanks for the results. Good to see the different cams how they perform.
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Old 01-23-2007, 06:07 AM   #51
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

Now imagine what the dyno would look like if the IPS-K2's tested were what they currently offer!

Nice job chunky on the thorough explanation.
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Old 01-23-2007, 06:10 AM   #52
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

wow...nice results its was a bought time this was done...helps the customer...both good products...hopefully companies will continue to do this by competing . im sure better products will come out from this..
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Old 01-23-2007, 06:50 AM   #53
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

Again, i think it will be difficult for people to believe that the S2s had no more potential. And i don't mean anything for those worked for the test!
The S2 power graph is too smooth to be the ultimate!
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Old 01-23-2007, 06:51 AM   #54
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

i have gotten the questions back from Ron , after i speak with Skunk and Chunky today , il give you a timetable for releasing all the information

IMO:
The k2s did great, and to think these arent even the 8620s
The skunk2s i think will benefit from their Exhaust cam gear which we did NOT have.

i believe with a better header, the Skunk2s would have pulled away more up top as they were amking power DEEP into the 8ks on lower cam angles.
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:03 AM   #55
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

To claim that one cam will benefit from a better header and exhaust cam gear, and the other will stay static is not very realistic. Come on...

here's a K2 dyno at the same dyno were we dyno the k20a.org race car

As you see , the K2 keeps going after 8000RPM



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Old 01-23-2007, 07:11 AM   #56
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikos
To claim that one cam will benefit from a better header and exhaust cam gear, and the other will stay static is not very realistic. Come on...
This is true but most probably -given the shape of the graphs- the S2 cams should benefit a lot more from these parameters (header, exh.cam gears) that the IPS which is already close at its best for this set-up.
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:13 AM   #57
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikos
Thanks for the clarification. I have nothing to do with the posting of the graphs but I do have to admit that I am happy they are finally out. You guys did all the hard work and your wish for a complete account should have been granted but you have to also consider all these people that have looked at the IPS vs Skunk2 thread dozens of times for results.

Personally, I know that Ron spent a considerable amount of time on the Q & A for this test and it would be a real shame for these answers not to see the light of day since Ron doesn't post anymore.

We appreciate your work and in my opinion we have learned some valuable lessons for the next cam test. I do not think it is a good idea to involve companies in these tests. The reason is very simple. Companies should be competing in a friendly manner through the value and quality of their products. Third party tests are valuable but also depend on the credibility of the 3rd party that is performing the test.

If you are going to officially involve both companies in a cam shout out, you need to be ready for the precautions. This market is hard as is... having companies calling each other out doesn't help anyone.. not even the end user. Companies don't need to work together.. but they can make a decent attempt to respect each other and give credit where it is due.

So is Skunk2 going to go back to the drawing board or are they content with these results? I highly doubt they are content. Same with IPS... Is IPS ready to update the K2 profile with revisions? These are the questions I ask myself after looking at these results.
The Q & A will still be posted to give both companies a chance to comment.

Honestly, I think manufacturer involvement is a GREAT thing. That is partly what made this site a success - extensive presence of product manufacturers. They provided real tech information on their products versus hearsay from people who have never even used the item.

I agree that there should be better etiquette when manufacturers butt heads, but that's not always going to happen as we don't live in an ideal world. The point is to learn from the experience and improve things in the future. What was done here is already done. Stressing about it won't do anything but make my hair turn gray prematurely.

I hope that I get the chance to be involved in another cam test in the future. I did my best in the amount of time given to bring both cams to their maximum potential in the area of interest. Sure, there is more power to be had on both cams, but this just gives consumers a general idea of how things stack up.

At any rate, everyone was expecting a close finish so the results are not that surprising really. They just show that both IPS and Skunk2 are making power.
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:22 AM   #58
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Race
This is true but most probably -given the shape of the graphs- the S2 cams should benefit a lot more from these parameters (header, exh.cam gears) that the IPS which is already close at its best for this set-up.
Dr Race... Stating that the IPS K2 are close to its best for this setup is just wrong. You don;t know that.. I don;t know that. Exhaust cam gears have been on the market for a while.. yet there has not been a single tuner that has explored the potential of the exhaust cam gear.. so this is all speculation.

There are a lot of ifs. Instead of focusing on the IFS, let;s talk about what we are looking at here.

On another matter, I am really suprised I have not read one single comment yet about the quality of the cams. How did the cams look? Could you tell that one was of better quality than the other?
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:34 AM   #59
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

Derek from hondata once said that power in the midrange can affect peak horse power, so until you try a better header or whatever other part... you just don;t know. That is the beauty of engine dynos.. You can modify all these factors without having to do much work...

Again ,thank you for doing this.
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:39 AM   #60
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Default Re: ***OFFICIAL RESULTS IPS K2s VS Skunk2 STAGE 2s***

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikos
To claim that one cam will benefit from a better header and exhaust cam gear, and the other will stay static is not very realistic. Come on...
where did i say the K2s would have stayed the same? i dont rmember typing that.

what i said was, the Skunk2s were more of a fixed cam angle . therefore, with their exhaust cam gear, i would bet to see more power in the midrange. with a better header, i bet the top end would have widened more.

Now, with a better header, i think the k2s would have seen more power in the midrange, and carried a little bit further up top. but whose to say a cam gear on the k2s would have yielded different results. i dont know, cause i have never seen that data.

but it was pretty obvious the skunk2 wanted to rev.
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