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Old 11-22-2007, 12:04 PM   #61
ce
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

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Originally Posted by 6spd_EK View Post
I take it you missed the engine dyno graph Tony (Skunk2TS)posted on page 2????

ek24monster - thanks for the reply on the cam sync'ing depending on the software used - very interesting

I can now verify there is a big difference. I've just dynoed a k20a with the stage 2s and the gain was 10whp by setting the gear at -5 marks.

However ,it looks like the engine is over cammed

What's the recommended compression for the stage 2 cams ? It's at stock now which is 11.5. Apparently that's not enough
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Old 11-22-2007, 12:51 PM   #62
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

As a stupid question, what REAL engine builder, does not degree the cams and have an idea of where he wants the opening and closing of the cams, compared to the reat of the build? Displacement, flow, compression, rev range, intake, exhaust, etc. all have a bearing on where your cam timing, and duration should be. Piss on what the mfg. says, that is a starting point for a genaric engine. BOTH cams should have adj. gears so a builder can start where they want. Changing compression, displacement, air-flow, or application ( drag, Road racing, street) will change the cam timing. Drop-in or bolt on tests mean absolutly NOTHING, without knowing where you want to go. If you are an E-bay builder, stick with Nikos, that seems to be what he does. If you know how an engine actually works, do your own homework, and what is best for you.
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Old 11-22-2007, 04:34 PM   #63
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

Don, in all fairness a cam manufacturer can machine the cams so they are correctly indexed and dont need cam gears. If this wasnt true factory cams would have to be "degreed in" and they obviously arnt. If they were there would need to be some sort of adjustment.

Even resurfacing the head or block doesnt change the cam timing significantly. you have to cut .017inch to make a 1 degree change. Im sure you already knew that though.

Milking the consumers for additional support parts because the cam timing was intentionally altered is solely to increase profits.
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:15 PM   #64
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

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Originally Posted by DonF View Post
If you are an E-bay builder, stick with Nikos, that seems to be what he does. If you know how an engine actually works, do your own homework, and what is best for you.
DonF, thanks for the great advice.. That people with skunk2 cams or anyther cams should be able and take the time to degree their stock motors in order to reinvent the wheel that should had been already invented by the cam company... because apparently according to you without an engine builder we are screwed... lol
My ebay built motor still will probablymake more power and is more reliable than the degreed motor you will waste your time degreeing the hell out of... lol I mean , why take the time to analyze and degree a motor that is going to be using sub par parts?

What you fail to understand is that the fact that you believe that you should piss on what the manufacturer says, tells me that you should start working with more reliable and knowledable manufacturers or stop charging BS labor charges for work that could have been avoided. Manufacturing tolerances do exist but they are not enough to require degreeing of the motor everytime you want to change cams... Sounds to me that you are still in Bseries mode, still using sup par quality cams.. I hope you had a happy thanksgiving and I hope you didnt take time to degree the turkey....


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Old 11-23-2007, 11:35 AM   #65
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

Niko's here is a silly question. With the same cams, head, compression, should the closing IN number be the same on a K-20 and K24.
Omni, you know better, you have built show room stock engines. You didn't fudge or move the cam timing to optimum? Or do you mean every single stock Honda engine has the EXACT same cam timing, no variation with camgear, keyway slop, crank gear keyway slop, you set the B16's to the same cam timing as a stroker B22?
Well I have been eduacated today, after 35 years. I can just buy the stuff and not have to check bearing clearances, piston clearances, or cc anything, just put it together because the mfg. is the one responsible if it runs good or not.
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Old 11-23-2007, 04:24 PM   #66
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

Don, yes different sized engines would require different cam timing primarily if the strokes were quite different. For safety a degree or 2 would be a totally acceptable offset to prevent possible damage from "variations in production tolerance". Lets be real 5 degrees is a pretty large offset. For example on a B-series if you were off 1 tooth that would be 11 degrees. 5 degrees is nearly half a tooth off. Maybe the production tolerances on the Skunk2 cams are so terrible that they need to incorperate such a large margin of "safety". I doubt that is true. What i do know is that when i was working for them i was told to purposely advance the exhaust and retard the intake through the key way location. When i asked why i was told "so we can sell more cam gears".

Don, which K-series engine combination requires 5 degrees of advance on the exhaust cam to be optimal? I guess if the head was milled .070 inch it would line up. that would account for less than 1% of moded K engines.
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Old 11-23-2007, 08:14 PM   #67
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

I just read through....... are these cliff notes correct?
1. The Skunk2 stage 1 cams with exhaust gear retarded 4-5 marks made more tq and slightly more power than the IPS cams.
2. The #'s are in question due to different dyno's from the same shop,(Churches)
3. There seems to be speculation as to the quality of the Skunk2 design because a seperate part (exhaust gear) is needed to extract the best performance.
4. Comparo may not be fair due to no exhaust gear on IPS cams(already retarded from manufacturer)
5. There is no base map for the Skunk2 cams, IPS is supported with a base map through Hondata
6. Skunk2 had a quality isue that is said by them to have been addressed.

If I read it right... the Skunk2 Stage1 cams with the adjustable exhaust gear make more TQ and similar HP as the IPS cams for roughly 1/2 the price for parts, although the savings may have to be spent on a pro tune.

I am sure I missed a few details, but the info. as presented here makes the Skunks look like a good choice....
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Old 11-23-2007, 10:00 PM   #68
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

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Originally Posted by sharper View Post
I just read through....... are these cliff notes correct?
1. The Skunk2 stage 1 cams with exhaust gear retarded 4-5 marks made more tq and slightly more power than the IPS cams.
2. The #'s are in question due to different dyno's from the same shop,(Churches)
3. There seems to be speculation as to the quality of the Skunk2 design because a seperate part (exhaust gear) is needed to extract the best performance.
4. Comparo may not be fair due to no exhaust gear on IPS cams(already retarded from manufacturer)
5. There is no base map for the Skunk2 cams, IPS is supported with a base map through Hondata
6. Skunk2 had a quality isue that is said by them to have been addressed.

If I read it right... the Skunk2 Stage1 cams with the adjustable exhaust gear make more TQ and similar HP as the IPS cams for roughly 1/2 the price for parts, although the savings may have to be spent on a pro tune.

I am sure I missed a few details, but the info. as presented here makes the Skunks look like a good choice....
I think you may have missed the boat... basically the summary is that the IPS cams are of better quality and design... which is why they cost more (u remember the old saying that you get what you pay for). They have been tried and tested for years and have always made great power. Now im no IPS sales rep but ive heard nothing but good things about there cams. Now when can I raise the money for a set? Sponsors?
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Old 11-24-2007, 11:35 AM   #69
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

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Originally Posted by Omni-Power View Post
Don, yes different sized engines would require different cam timing primarily if the strokes were quite different. For safety a degree or 2 would be a totally acceptable offset to prevent possible damage from "variations in production tolerance". Lets be real 5 degrees is a pretty large offset. For example on a B-series if you were off 1 tooth that would be 11 degrees. 5 degrees is nearly half a tooth off. Maybe the production tolerances on the Skunk2 cams are so terrible that they need to incorperate such a large margin of "safety". I doubt that is true. What i do know is that when i was working for them i was told to purposely advance the exhaust and retard the intake through the key way location. When i asked why i was told "so we can sell more cam gears".

Don, which K-series engine combination requires 5 degrees of advance on the exhaust cam to be optimal? I guess if the head was milled .070 inch it would line up. that would account for less than 1% of moded K engines.
So are you saying you wre the one who machined the keyway's in the Bseries cams, when you were at Skunk? Or trying to say you designed the cams? YOU allready told me who did the designs, 2 were Mega.
I realize a manufactuer could never get the specs wrong from a design supplied by a customer, so it was the design of the bad clutch master cylinders and shocks that were wrong, not a mistake by the factory, I got it now. Personally, I check every set of cams I install, and do not necessarly use the mfg. numbers, depends on the engine and application.
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Old 11-24-2007, 01:26 PM   #70
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

Don i think you misunderstood what i said or interpreted it incorrectly. try reading it again. If need be i can rewrite it in trailer park or alcoholic a language that might be easier for you to comprehend? let me know.

also i was wondering if you could determine the cause of this spring failure?
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Old 11-25-2007, 01:23 PM   #71
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

Now that is the Steve I know. When you are wrong throw insults, and find a pic of a competor's product ( who fired you) and post it. Way to go, I new your true colors would show thru. LOL Stop by the trailer park for a beer, we gots dog fighting, and coon hunting every weekend.
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Old 11-25-2007, 01:42 PM   #72
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

Keep the thread on topic, take it to PM's or start a new thread in the coffee shop. This is not Honda-Crap, please keep it on topic and informative.
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:53 AM   #73
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

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Originally Posted by HondaDoctor View Post
I think you may have missed the boat... basically the summary is that the IPS cams are of better quality and design... which is why they cost more (u remember the old saying that you get what you pay for). They have been tried and tested for years and have always made great power. Now im no IPS sales rep but ive heard nothing but good things about there cams. Now when can I raise the money for a set? Sponsors?

you sound like a mindless fanboy...i hope you own a set of IPS cams at least?
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:02 AM   #74
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

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Originally Posted by Omni-Power View Post
Don i think you misunderstood what i said or interpreted it incorrectly. try reading it again. If need be i can rewrite it in trailer park or alcoholic a language that might be easier for you to comprehend? let me know.

also i was wondering if you could determine the cause of this spring failure?
That right there makes me not want to recommend any omnipower product to any customers.
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:14 PM   #75
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

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you sound like a mindless fanboy...i hope you own a set of IPS cams at least?
now i don't know why you decide to randomly pick on me, but you should check your reading comprehension before you try to put me on blast. like i said before im no expert... i just go by what i hear and what i read... and all of ive been reading lately is how skunk2 cams are crap... and i know a few people who have IPS cams and i read nothing but good things about them. R IPS the best cams for k-series? Its hard to tell, theres a few great brands out there... R they better than skunk2 cams? all signs point to yes.
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:18 PM   #76
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Default Re: update on my friend hung's EG with skunk2 cams

well another thread that went to shit...

Let me know when the beer drinking at the trailor park starts and I'll unlock it!
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