k24/k20 frank build - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:15 AM   #1
vteckiller
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Default k24/k20 frank build

hey guys i'm in the process of building a k24a4 block with k20a2 head frank build, this will be all motor street car( daily driver) any help or advise will be appreciated. here's what i'm planning on doing/set up.

BLOCK: k24a4
- overbore to 88mm(.040+)
-supertech 88mm 12.5.1cr pistons
-scat rods or eagle rods?
- acl race bearings
-k20a2 oil pump
-k20a2 oil cooler
-ARP head studs
-cosmetic head gasket
-clean and polish oem crank
HEAD: K20A2 (may leave it stock) if not
-supertech valves,valve springs, steel retainers,seats, oem keepers
-BC stg.3 cams or Kelford stg.3 cams?
SUPPORTING MODS:
-K-PRO
-RBC INTAKE MANI
-SKUNK2 70MM TB
-OBX OR ASP HEADERS?
- FULL 3inch exhaust
-street tune

this will my daily so, i'm looking to make 250-280whp, 220-250 ft.lbs tq. not planning on spending 10k this motor will go in a 02 dc5. lmk what you guys think and lmk if i missed anything for the build. thanks
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:42 AM   #2
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

would suggest manley rods insteads of scats or eagles.
and wiseco pistons as the material will be much quieter overall.
dont suggest obx headers since never seen them. ASP if you can!
either cam will be alright for your goal.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

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Originally Posted by chameleon View Post
would suggest manley rods insteads of scats or eagles.
and wiseco pistons as the material will be much quieter overall.
dont suggest obx headers since never seen them. ASP if you can!
either cam will be alright for your goal.
actually scat rods and Manley are almost same. The wisco pistons cause piston slap on cold start. That's what people told me, its because wisco nd supertech make different grade of forged.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:12 AM   #4
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

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actually scat rods and Manley are almost same. The wisco pistons cause piston slap on cold start. That's what people told me, its because wisco nd supertech make different grade of forged.
Supertech pistons are 4302 alloy and wiseco are probably 2618 alloy. You want the 4302 alloy or OEM for daily driven cars. Like stated above, I'd go with Manley H beams rods over the scat rods. I'm using them in my build and heard from other experienced builders to use them.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:26 AM   #5
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

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Supertech pistons are 4302 alloy and wiseco are probably 2618 alloy. You want the 4302 alloy or OEM for daily driven cars. Like stated above, I'd go with Manley H beams rods over the scat rods. I'm using them in my build and heard from other experienced builders to use them.
doesn't manley rods have filament issue with supertech pistons? i've heard that you have to hone the small end of the rod to fit in the wrist pin to the piston?
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:02 AM   #6
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

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doesn't manley rods have filament issue with supertech pistons? i've heard that you have to hone the small end of the rod to fit in the wrist pin to the piston?
Honing out the small end of the rod is standard procedure.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:08 AM   #7
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

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Honing out the small end of the rod is standard procedure.
really didn't know that. Thought they come as direct fit.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:12 AM   #8
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

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really didn't know that. Thought they come as direct fit.
Google or ask around and you'll see. Why 88mm and not 87.25mm or 87.5mm so you'll have room to safey bore again if you need to? Why ACL bearings over OEM?
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:09 AM   #9
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

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Google or ask around and you'll see. Why 88mm and not 87.25mm or 87.5mm so you'll have room to safey bore again if you need to? Why ACL bearings over OEM?
88mm because that's biggest I can go on a daily without sleeves. The .5mm will give me a little more room to make bottom end power. Acl bearings because they are more durable than oem, high revv engine. If I need more power or decide to make it all out race motor than I'll just buy a another block rather than reboring it. Seems to me most people who used 88mm bore made some good power not saying that stock bore isn't good, also seen many people with 87mm bore make good powe. It just makes sense to me that biggger the bore the better chance you have. Anyways I'm getting a a2 head next week, what you think should I leave it how it is or install supertech valve train package? I.e. Springs,1mm over sized flat valves,ti retainers, seats,oem keepers. Is there a difference between the base dc5 k-pro to type s k-pro? Or are they same?
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:49 AM   #10
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

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88mm because that's biggest I can go on a daily without sleeves. The .5mm will give me a little more room to make bottom end power. Acl bearings because they are more durable than oem, high revv engine. If I need more power or decide to make it all out race motor than I'll just buy a another block rather than reboring it. Seems to me most people who used 88mm bore made some good power not saying that stock bore isn't good, also seen many people with 87mm bore make good powe. It just makes sense to me that biggger the bore the better chance you have. Anyways I'm getting a a2 head next week, what you think should I leave it how it is or install supertech valve train package? I.e. Springs,1mm over sized flat valves,ti retainers, seats,oem keepers. Is there a difference between the base dc5 k-pro to type s k-pro? Or are they same?
Who says ACL is more durable than OEM? I dont mean to question everything lol just want to know the reasoning behind it.

Since you got the head off already, id just upgrade everything. Stock size intake valves will serve you good since its a DD. Its not hard to make your power goal of 260-280hp with 12.5cr and a good set of cams and supporting bolt ons. You def won't make that amount of torque though, that's A LOT of torque for N/A.

Type S Kpro has reverse lock while the DC5 base doesn't IIRC. Just get a PRB ecu and Kpro it.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:57 AM   #11
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

You will need aftermarket valve springs/retainers/keepers to run either of those camshafts. Valves is only an option at those HP goals.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:30 AM   #12
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

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Who says ACL is more durable than OEM? I dont mean to question everything lol just want to know the reasoning behind it.

Since you got the head off already, id just upgrade everything. Stock size intake valves will serve you good since its a DD. Its not hard to make your power goal of 260-280hp with 12.5cr and a good set of cams and supporting bolt ons. You def won't make that amount of torque though, that's A LOT of torque for N/A.

Type S Kpro has reverse lock while the DC5 base doesn't IIRC. Just get a PRB ecu and Kpro it.
some people says that it's more durable until now I haven't really researched it and now I know that you can only get one bearings out acl and you can play with with your clearences with oem. I'm trying to make at least 280whp and 220wtq. More whp won't hurt. Anyone know how much these oem bearings run and do they come in a kit?
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:03 PM   #13
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

i'm in the process of putting together a similar setup and was on the fence between supertech and wiseco pistons too. this is what i was told from a well known engine builder on the forums:

Quote:
I would definitely recommend the wiseco...and we make a LOT more money selling the supertech. They aren't comparable from a design and quality of manufacturing standpoint. Wiseco has probably the best design for longevity. There is a lot more to the piston design than the material...break over point, amount of taper, etc. The wiseco is a very good piston and you can drive over 100,000 miles no issue.

They don't expand as much as people lead on. Set the piston to wall up at .003-.0035 and you'll be in good shape.
food for thought
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:20 PM   #14
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

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i'm in the process of putting together a similar setup and was on the fence between supertech and wiseco pistons too. this is what i was told from a well known engine builder on the forums:



food for thought
What did he say about daily driving on the 2618 alloy pistons though or does wiseco make 4302 pistons? What did you end of going with?
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

that was his response to my questions about wiseco 2618 vs supertech 4302 for daily driving.

havent made a decision yet as i'm still in the planning phases and talking to a few different shops about what i want. if i do end up going with this shop i'll be going with their recommendations.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:35 PM   #16
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

Understandable. Looking forward to see what you choose and why
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:56 PM   #17
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

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Originally Posted by F-BOM View Post
i'm in the process of putting together a similar setup and was on the fence between supertech and wiseco pistons too. this is what i was told from a well known engine builder on the forums:



food for thought
is there any disadvantages In supertech pistons?
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:42 PM   #18
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Default Re: k24/k20 frank build

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that was his response to my questions about wiseco 2618 vs supertech 4302 for daily driving.

havent made a decision yet as i'm still in the planning phases and talking to a few different shops about what i want. if i do end up going with this shop i'll be going with their recommendations.
stock pistons are made out of cast aluminum and reliable until about 300bhp .
Most forged pistons are manufactured from either 2618 "wiseco,cp,je forged pistons" or 4032 "mahle, supertech" aluminum alloy. Both have advantages and disadvantages, depending on application. Racing turbo engines usually require stronger low-silicon 2618 alloy, while less demanding applications favor the greater silicon content found in 4032 alloy.

2618 alloy. This alloy is extremely ductile and strong, perfect for the stress and pounding of a forced induction set-up. The primary disadvantage is a greater coefficient of thermal expansion. When exposed to heat, a piston made of 2618 alloy will expand approximately 13 percent more than its 4032 counterpart. To accommodate the additional expansion, more initial piston-to-wall clearance is necessary. Extra clearance results in more piston noise at cold start-up, but this effect diminishes as operating temperatures are reached.

4032 alloy Melting Range 1180 F - 1215 F
2618 alloy Melting Range 1020 F - 1180 F

supertech states that they use a variation of 4032 alloy as Rick Solis said they also mention a unique machine process and treatment of the pistons they also claims pushing 42 psi of boost on their pistons without failure using alcohol!
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