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How to: Break in a new build

58K views 52 replies 30 participants last post by  snorky 
#1 ·
What motor oil do you use to break in your motor? same quesiton with the transmission. do you buy just whatever for the first 500 miles then change it for a better oil or do you stay with the good stuff during break in also?

how do you guys prefer to seat your piston rings, driving/break in wise.

thanks guys
 
#3 ·
Re: break in

this subject has been beaten to death im sure but i feel like typing so ill fill you in...

break in is basically 10-30w regular motor oil, nothing fancy anything cheap. purolator, wix etc oil filter. run the motor for 15min, adjust idle and fuel, make sure its not too rich and too lean, this is very important for the first few minutes of a motors life. you dont want to wash out the rings. after the car is idling and fuel is stoich (14.7) check for oil + coolant + fuel leaks. make sure you have oil pressure first of all!! otherwise something is wrong, turn it off and start checking.

drain oil after 15min. change the oil filter with a new one and pour some more regular oil. start her back up and now bleed the coolant system. once coolant is bled, no leaks and fuel is good you can start doing some driving and adjusting part throttle fuel. you can basically do this for 100-500 miles. in the process you want to downshift when slowing down to load up rings and some half throttle pulls to no more than 4-5k at 50% throttle. the rest is stop and go miles. like i said its up to the discresion of whos doing the breakin, a proper breakin can be done in 50 miles and thats all thats needed. but to anyone else just drive 100-500 city miles.

at 500 miles change the oil to whatever oil of your choice.. synthetic... gold dust oil.. purple passion, whatever.. lol i have my select few... please stay away from mobil 1. if you dont know then google it.

now go and dyno tune and make powa!

ps- transmission just use a quality TF like honda MTF or Amsoil MTF.. just stay away from gear oil in honda transmissions. clearences in hondas need thinner lubrication than the molasses of gear oil. :dance:
 
#5 ·
Re: break in

this subject has been beaten to death im sure but i feel like typing so ill fill you in...

break in is basically 10-30w regular motor oil, nothing fancy anything cheap. purolator, wix etc oil filter. run the motor for 15min, adjust idle and fuel, make sure its not too rich and too lean, this is very important for the first few minutes of a motors life. you dont want to wash out the rings. after the car is idling and fuel is stoich (14.7) check for oil + coolant + fuel leaks. make sure you have oil pressure first of all!! otherwise something is wrong, turn it off and start checking.

drain oil after 15min. change the oil filter with a new one and pour some more regular oil. start her back up and now bleed the coolant system. once coolant is bled, no leaks and fuel is good you can start doing some driving and adjusting part throttle fuel. you can basically do this for 100-500 miles. in the process you want to downshift when slowing down to load up rings and some half throttle pulls to no more than 4-5k at 50% throttle. the rest is stop and go miles. like i said its up to the discresion of whos doing the breakin, a proper breakin can be done in 50 miles and thats all thats needed. but to anyone else just drive 100-500 city miles.

at 500 miles change the oil to whatever oil of your choice.. synthetic... gold dust oil.. purple passion, whatever.. lol i have my select few... please stay away from mobil 1. if you dont know then google it.

now go and dyno tune and make powa!

ps- transmission just use a quality TF like honda MTF or Amsoil MTF.. just stay away from gear oil in honda transmissions. clearences in hondas need thinner lubrication than the molasses of gear oil. :dance:

Thanks for posting this, one question I have is wouldn't it be wise to bleed the coolant first to avoid overheating while letting it idle? Also I was told not to let it idle at normal rpm's is this true?
 
#4 ·
Re: break in

yea ok, i was going to just get some regular 5w30 and procced with the break in, with the tubo piping disconnected (forgot to mention its turboed), and tune for all motor/break in. after the break in i was going to switch to synthetic mobile or amsoil and start tuning the turbo. Where do you guys get your amsoil or Honda fluids?? i cant find any without having to order some
 
#7 ·
Re: break in

What about specialty products? For example, Royal Purple now has a break in oil now. Something with more zinc or something?
 
#16 ·
Re: break in

Usually I just fill it up with convential 10w30, new filter, let it idle for maybe 20-30 minutes until it warms up, bleed cooling system out, check everything over, then I change the oil and filter again with conventional. Drive it around for a few hundred miles getting into it a little so the rings can seal up and swith over to Honda filter and Brad Penn 10w30.

I can honestly say that on the motor I just built 2 weeks ago all I did was fill it with conventional oil, new cheap filter, started it up, let it warm up, revved it up to 3k-4k rpm a few times and bled cooling system. Was in kinda a hurry to get car on dyno for IFO a few days later so I just changed the filter and checked the oil to make sure it was still clean, and it was. Tuned it, drove it home, parked it and changed the oil over to Brad Penn and put on Honda filter. No issues whatsoever. No oil leaks, burning, nothing.

Just goes to show a long engine break-in isn't really always necessary. I've always wondered if car manufacturers break in every single motor they install in vehicles or not. I kinda doubt it.
 
#18 ·
Re: break in

good info..

Here are the best Information about K motors

Update 5/12/07

PART #2 How to break in a New engine..

One of the most asked questions is how do I break in my new motor? The short answer is that no break-in is necessary. The only thing that is necessary is to seat the rings. All clearances and fitments should be perfect after blueprinting and precision assembly. So how many miles do you have to drive it to seat the rings? The cylinders are round, the rings are round, the bore is freshly honed and therefore your engine should be ready for tuning immediately. They will continue to seat better over a short period of time but you should be ready to go tune right away.
Do I need to drive it 500 miles before I tune it? Absolutely not. How about 50 miles? No. Perhaps the best thing to do is to drive it all the way to your trailer and tow it to a competent tuner. In second position on the “things NOT to do list” is trying to break in an un-tuned engine by driving it. Too lean an air/fuel will begin to heat and distort parts, too rich will wash the oil off the cylinders causing premature wear. What is in first place on the “things NOT to do list”? Boost on an un-tuned motor. Within 2 to 3 seconds the pistons and cylinders can be ruined.
Well I did put in a new base map or I’m just running off the stock Honda computer. Can’t I drive it like that for a few miles? I’m not even boosting. Well what is the base map? Just someone’s idea of what numbers will start your car. Just an educated guess by someone who does not have a clue what components you are running in your set-up. It’s not intended to drive on for any extended period of time. The same with that stock Honda computer. It could be ok but it could also be dangerously wrong.

So what exactly do I do at the first engine start-up? Pull the spark plugs and crank the motor with your starter for a maximum of 30 seconds or until you see the oil pressure gauge begin to register. Re-install the plugs and wires and fire up that candle. While keeping one eye on the oil pressure gauge, use your other eye to scan for fuel leaks. If there are no fuel leaks, look under the motor for any major oil or coolant leaks. If that is ok, run the engine for 5 to 10 minutes while keeping an eye on the temperature and pressure gauges. Keep the rpm’s between 1000-3000. Shut the engine down and double-check everything. You are now ready for tuning.

But my engine was already tuned from my previous set-up. Well, what happened to your previous set-up? Did you melt a stock piston or crack a cylinder? No problem because now you have forged pistons and sleeves? Wrong. Although you now have stronger components that will take more abuse, you are still not right on your air fuel mixture. Get that thing tuned properly ASAP.

OK, I did it my way instead of yours and now I’m burning a lot of oil. What happened? Well basically you scarred up the skirt of the piston, messed up the surface of the cylinder wall and maybe even egg shaped the cylinder. New pistons are tapered smaller on the top to larger at the bottom of the skirt. Your piston to wall clearance is measured at the bottom of the skirt. As the engine warms up to operating temperature, the upper portion of the piston begins to expand slightly. The bottom of the skirt does not expand much. When you boost in a lean condition, the upper part of the piston expands quickly. Since the ring land area is cut smaller than the tapered skirt below it, the first part of the piston that pushes into the cylinder wall is just below the oil ring. Thus you will see the worst scarring on your piston right under the ring lands where the excess heat is the highest



The more heat that is generated, the harder the piston pushes into the cylinder wall. The uninformed would blame the piston damage on bad piston to wall clearance. Untrue. If that were the problem, the damage would show up at the very bottom of the skirt. What has happened is that you have expanded your piston to the point that it has just ground itself into the cylinder wall. Keep expanding the piston by super heating it and it will push your cylinder egg shaped and maybe even balloon out the cylinder slightly. At the same time this is happening, your ring lands will begin to distort to where they will never seal properly again. Sometimes after doing this, the engine will still run but it will be a smoker. This all happens in a few seconds of high boost with a lean air fuel ratio. Also it can happen from 500 freeway miles of driving where the tune up is off enough to build excess heat at a slower rate, thus doing the same damage over a longer period of time…but the end results are the same. Death to your pistons and cylinder walls.

OK, I’m just going to turn the fuel pressure way up and run extra fat, that way I won’t hurt anything. If you run too rich, you will “wash out” the rings. First, excess fuel will run down the cylinders taking the lubricating oil with it. This promotes direct metal-to-metal contact between the rings and the cylinder wall. This contact does several things. The upper ring begins to wear quickly. The middle ring is actually designed as a tapered oil scraper (it is not used for compression control at all) and the taper will begin to wear down to where it becomes flat rather than angled. When that happens, it can no longer control oil away from the combustion chamber. The last thing that happens is that pretty cross hatch design begins to wear off of the cylinder wall. While most people think that the cross hatch is there to help seat the rings, it also has a secondary purpose. That is to hold microscopic amounts of oil in the grooves to help lubricate ring to cylinder walls. With the walls smooth and no oil control help from the middle ring and a tired upper ring, oil will begin to mix with fuel in the combustion chamber. When this happens, your 93 octane fuel probably hits a value of about 80. Then detonation comes into play and begins to beat holes in the pistons, among other things.

So whom can I blame for this mess? The blind machinist that honed my piston to wall clearance? That poor quality Brand X piston manufacturer? The idiot pro engine builder that assembled my block? My ex-friend that helped me put this all together? Those ignorant engineers that gave me a bad base map with my engine management system? The guy on the internet message board whose buddy knows that it takes at least 1000 miles of break in before you can tune an engine properly? All of the above? Probably none of the above. Go look in a mirror and ask…who started this engine and had no idea what the air fuel ratio was? Who just wanted to jump on it one time to see if it would haul? Who didn’t know that their injectors were at 100% duty cycle at 4000 rpm but they wanted to see how it would run at 6000 rpm? Why it was you. Get that thing tuned right away. You will notice that the more you drive a tuned motor, the stronger it will feel. This is just the rings seating in their final 5-10% as they thank you for tuning first.
Thank you Earl.
 
#24 ·
There is a lot of stories about braking a motor. The cheap oil are not the best oil to use because they still have detergents. Also for a good breaking we need some metals in the oil like zinc.

Below is a list of olis with higher levels of wear additives that may more desirable for break in.

Delo 400:
Magnesium 23
Calcium 3343
Zinc 1376

Delvac:
Moby 35
Boron 61
Calcium 2195
Magnesium 419
Phopphorus 1120
Zinc 1231

Rotella T:
Magnesium 20
Calcium 3322
Phopphorus 1326
Zinc 1499

But for me, the best oil to use for break in si the John Deere 10w30

This is an article from John Deere about this oil:
John Deere Break-In Oil
from John Deere product support

Related Pages
Service tips

Background
The first 100 hours of operation are critical to the life and performance of an engine. During the first hours of operation, the rings and liners must seat (establish a pattern) for proper performance. If this does not occur, the life of the engine can be adversely affected.
John Deere Engine Break-In Oil (part number TY22057) is a special-blend oil developed to be used in rebuilt or remanufactured engines and new John Deere engines during the break-in period.
This unique oil is formulated with special additives to allow the power cylinder components (pistons and liners) to "wear-in" while protecting other engine components (valve train and gears) from abnormal wear. These additives control piston and liner seating without scuffing. This oil also provides excellent piston deposit control. As a result, piston rings and liners establish a good wear pattern for maximum performance and extended engine life.
High-quality premium engine oils should not be used as a break-in oil. The superior anti-wear characteristics of premium oils will inhibit the proper matching of components which could result in excessive oil consumption.
John Deere Break-In Oil is an excellent oil for new or rebuilt non-John Deere engines. Engine rebuild instructions should be consulted to determine if special requirements are needed.
Consult the operator's manual for the break-in period. John Deere Break-in Oil has a 100 hour maximum drain interval.
 
#26 ·
Re: break in

i just changed my oil at 100 miles w/filter(saw the metal in oil,glitery texture) then at 500 w/filter(not as much but still little bit glittery). highly recommend on fresh build do not have turbo connected turbo will get contaminated then cause a big fail. i would even recommend using cheap oil pump when breaking in, then upgrading to a better one. k20 oil pumps are fragile and loose pressure easy.
 
#27 ·
my last few motors i would start, adjust idle and check for leaks or noises.. run for about 15 minutes, kill the motor and change the oil,

start it back up and begin driving all loads, once i'm able to reach WOT with a good air/fuel i start driving the crud out of it and letting the engine decel itself from a high rpm. it takes me about 2-3 hours to fully tune a car when i drive and tune it myself,a little quicker when i have someone drive. after that it's pretty much good to go
 
#29 ·
I will be doing my first build soon and my question is however dumb it may be; why can't you just run synth.out of the gate? Does it not have th proper components as regular oils or break-in oils?
 
#30 ·
The reason Synthetic Oil is not recommended to use right away is because new ring technology calls for smoother final hones and less break-in periods. That that means is that the cylinder walls are now more and more smooth (aka, less abrasive to the rings). Synthetic oils are essentially "too slick" to allow this finer hone to wear into the rings, so all that you will be accomplishing is sliding the rings over the ultra fine layer of oil.

Another thing I will add is that the ONLY way to break in a motor is to load it. Driving around lightly will accomplish next to nothing, and an actual break-in happens withing the first 20 miles (probably much less, but you get the idea).

My break-in procedure for years has been to break it in on our dyno. Completely tune non-VTEC part throttle, then do 5-6 full throttle pulls in non-VTEC, drop the oil on the dyno and change the filter, and finish the tune. After that, if you *want* to drive it softly for x miles, you are free to do so, but there is NO need for it.
 
#31 ·
The reason Synthetic Oil is not recommended to use right away is because new ring technology calls for smoother final hones and less break-in periods. That that means is that the cylinder walls are now more and more smooth (aka, less abrasive to the rings). Synthetic oils are essentially "too slick" to allow this finer hone to wear into the rings, so all that you will be accomplishing is sliding the rings over the ultra fine layer of oil.

Another thing I will add is that the ONLY way to break in a motor is to load it. Driving around lightly will accomplish next to nothing, and an actual break-in happens withing the first 20 miles (probably much less, but you get the idea).

My break-in procedure for years has been to break it in on our dyno. Completely tune non-VTEC part throttle, then do 5-6 full throttle pulls in non-VTEC, drop the oil on the dyno and change the filter, and finish the tune. After that, if you *want* to drive it softly for x miles, you are free to do so, but there is NO need for it.
:wow:

can you give me ur ingredients please???? bearings(brand)???oil(type & brand)?????bearing grease????please???

because everytime i do full throttle pulls on a new breakin my bearings go to shet and contaminate everything
 
#36 ·
Hmm ok. Just spoke to the guy who is building the block. Asked him how he will break in my motor and said on the dyno. This is coming from a reputable person on this forum and has a 1000whp civic. I like what I read on this thread and rather take your advise. Makes more sense the way it is to be properly broken into instead of on a dyno.
 
#37 ·
really truth.org i just took apart a k24a2 and when i took off the cam bolts i heard air pressure come out on each stud when loosening trying to take out cams. so that means you must torque those by spec 4 sure...so long story short make sure everything is in spec and maybe no need for break in just dyno like your builder does....i still think its crazy but maybe af ratio has a lot to do with it...lowering cam angles, ignition timing, and adjust fuel...i can see how tune helps....:up:
 
#40 ·
Personally, I do exactly what I would do if you had brought me any other car/engine to tune.

I start with part throttle tuning, loading the engine up to 5000 RPM in 500 RPM increments, and then I tune non-VTEC WOT by doing pulls up to 7000 (all this at 0* VTC). I then do an oil change and filter change on the dyno, and then tune the rest of the maps.

NOTE: VTC has very little effect on the break-in. It doesn't matter if you start by tuning 50* or 0*, I start with 0* VTC simply because at idle the ECU defaults to 0*, and to get to 50* it has to rotate through the 10*-40* maps which haven't yet been tuned.
 
#41 ·
Dang mobil1 and royal purple getting bashed in here and I've always lived by those two brands. Guess I need to read up before pouring some lubricant in to my new build. Also something I haven't seen anyone post yet and I'm very surprised (maybe I missed it). During break in it is a very good idea to get magnetic plugs. When I built my last race motor, it was a high comp ls/vtec. Not really a race motor just a healthy engine for the streets, anyway if its a motor you plan on beating on take your time and break it in right. But I did mine like this, but I did have a buddy that worked at autozone and got me all the supplies for next to nothing. I used Mobil1 10-30 and Mobil1 filter. Magnetic drain plug, and stuck a 10" subwoofer magnet to the bottom of my oil pan(can't do that with these aluminum pans though). Started it and didn't touch throttle, let it get to operating temp, blipped the throttle to 2500-3000 a few times and let idle a bit longer. I then drained oil, and removed oil pan, cleaned it all out and put it back on as well as changing to a new Mobil1 filter. Filled it back up with same oil drive it down the road from my house for 25 miles u-turned and came back for a total of 50 miles. Do not keep rpms the same, keep fluctuating the throttle, bring rpms up to approx 4500-5000 and let off to load the cylinders. This seats the rings. After this trip I did same thing again, oil change with removing pan an cleaning. Same oil. I then drive the 25 miles fluctuating throttle again just as before, bringing rpms up and letting off throttle several times to set the rings. Then in the way back I stopped and checked all my fluid levels roadside. Then proceeded to give her hell! WOT VTEC pulls! Approx 5-6 pulls, checked fluids again, and returned home to do the same exact thing again. Although I don't recommend this untuned. I had a tune from a friend with almost identical engine builds so I wasn't scared. So after that last step I cleaned pan again and then just started drive my car normally, leaving magnet stuck to pan. I thin I drive it for 1500-2000 miles and changed it again. This time I had very minimal glitter. I did a compression check later and they were all exactly the same perfect. IMO more important than break in is making sure all of your bearing clearances are perfect, not "close enough" PERFECT! This makes all the difference in the world. But that's an entirely different thread
 
#42 ·
that was really really hard to read with no paragraphs

Dang mobil1 and royal purple getting bashed in here and I've always lived by those two brands. Guess I need to read up before pouring some lubricant in to my new build.

Also something I haven't seen anyone post yet and I'm very surprised (maybe I missed it). During break in it is a very good idea to get magnetic plugs. When I built my last race motor, it was a high comp ls/vtec. Not really a race motor just a healthy engine for the streets, anyway if its a motor you plan on beating on take your time and break it in right. But I did mine like this, but I did have a buddy that worked at autozone and got me all the supplies for next to nothing.

I used Mobil1 10-30 and Mobil1 filter. Magnetic drain plug, and stuck a 10" subwoofer magnet to the bottom of my oil pan(can't do that with these aluminum pans though). Started it and didn't touch throttle, let it get to operating temp, blipped the throttle to 2500-3000 a few times and let idle a bit longer. I then drained oil, and removed oil pan, cleaned it all out and put it back on as well as changing to a new Mobil1 filter. Filled it back up with same oil drive it down the road from my house for 25 miles u-turned and came back for a total of 50 miles.

Do not keep rpms the same, keep fluctuating the throttle, bring rpms up to approx 4500-5000 and let off to load the cylinders. This seats the rings. After this trip I did same thing again, oil change with removing pan an cleaning. Same oil. I then drive the 25 miles fluctuating throttle again just as before, bringing rpms up and letting off throttle several times to set the rings. Then in the way back I stopped and checked all my fluid levels roadside. Then proceeded to give her hell! WOT VTEC pulls! Approx 5-6 pulls, checked fluids again, and returned home to do the same exact thing again.

Although I don't recommend this untuned. I had a tune from a friend with almost identical engine builds so I wasn't scared. So after that last step I cleaned pan again and then just started drive my car normally, leaving magnet stuck to pan. I thin I drive it for 1500-2000 miles and changed it again. This time I had very minimal glitter.

I did a compression check later and they were all exactly the same perfect. IMO more important than break in is making sure all of your bearing clearances are perfect, not "close enough" PERFECT! This makes all the difference in the world. But that's an entirely different thread
 
#43 ·
yeah for me I just put 10w-40 valvoline oil and let it runs for while, than change with filter. Than throw it on the dyno and let the tuner do its job. Still daily drive and running strong with 780 hp with no problem. I think alot of people that runs into alot problems because they beat the crap at every red light and never let the car warm up before driveing it.
 
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