ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver** - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:26 AM   #1
felixy69
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Default ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

looking to build a motor for my soon k swap fit
deciding if i should go turbo, Super charged, or ITB all motor
problem with turbo is i don't have enough room to run a bigger FMIC to get the HP i wanted from boost, as i have jdm conversion which leaves no room in the front.

SuperCharger is another option,

but ITB seems balling !....
but what are the pros and cons of driving it through snow, rain, dust, sand, salt ?? i mean it's gonna be under the hood, and hopefully i can get a condom filter for the itb.....will i have any other issues running itb on a street car ?
do i also need a completely build high compression motor to see gains with itb?? will i see gains from just bolting it to a stock k24a2 ?




thanks
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:55 AM   #2
Brandon Heat
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

pro's= mad powa

con's= daily tuning, ITB's possibly sucking in foreign objects

if you want to go all motor and daily drive look at the center throttle body manifolds, either custom or Hayward Manifold, IPS Manifold, Excessive manifold

pro's=mad powa

hope that helps
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Old 07-04-2010, 07:23 AM   #3
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

yes you will see gains on a stock motor, an more with a built motor obviously

and if your gonna daily definitely run a filter


only problem i see is tuning, you would need to have them tuned really well for perfect driveability and sometimes weather can effect the way they act, so in cold weather you might need to adjust the tune a little to keep up the driveability


other then that they should be perfectly fine
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Old 07-04-2010, 01:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

omg...no one in my area can tune.....i hate Vancouver
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

I don't think ITBs would be a good idea for in Vancouver buddy.

Salt dust = FTL...
I'm in Nova Scotia and if it's anything like here your car should be stored.

Go Supercharge!
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:43 AM   #6
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

I vote against ITB's on a daily driver. you will most likely lose valuable low & mid-range power. not too mention you'll lose driveablity. you'd also have to fab a custom plenum (which could reduce any top end gains) or run filters on each stack. ITB's tend to shift the power curve up in the RPM range - only some ITB's will provide actual gains & they need to be custom tailored (runner length & diameter) for your particular setup
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

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Originally Posted by felixy69 View Post
omg...no one in my area can tune.....i hate Vancouver
that right there is the #1 reason you shouldn't get itb's. how about a rotrex setup? reliable and will make some real nice power.
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

You can put a filter on your ITBs just like any other manifold and they will be fine. Midgets run in all sorts of dust and dirt and it is all filtered before going into the injection. Their injectors are right next to the ground where all the dust is. Not a big deal at all.
You can also run box or plenum over them in the bad winter months.


Aside from the power, they sound incredible and look freakin sweet.
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

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You can put a filter on your ITBs just like any other manifold and they will be fine. Midgets run in all sorts of dust and dirt and it is all filtered before going into the injection. Their injectors are right next to the ground where all the dust is. Not a big deal at all.
You can also run box or plenum over them in the bad winter months.


Aside from the power, they sound incredible and look freakin sweet.
you forgot the best part...you have FOUR holes to suck hapless birds into instead of one.
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

There are some great manifolds that flow close to ITBs.
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Old 07-06-2010, 03:13 AM   #11
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

Will they fit into a fit though? it gets tight in those small engine bays.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:49 AM   #12
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

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Will they fit into a fit though? it gets tight in those small engine bays.
I thought fit's had alot of room at the front and above the engine...but maybe I'm wrong.Either way,it's well worth it which ever way you go.
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Old 07-06-2010, 07:19 AM   #13
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

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There are some great manifolds that flow close to ITBs.
There is a problem with flowing manifolds...it is useless data with the plenum on. Basically you can cut the plenum off and then flow the runner, but that doesn't tell you much about the manifold.

Just an example, someone we know flowed their head with ITBs and with an IPS manifold. The head lost 10+ cfm with the ITBs on the head (i can't remember the exact number) and only 3 or so CFM with the manifold. So naturally they went with the manifold, and made good power. A few weeks ago they switched to a set of properly sized ITBs and the car picked up 20-30hp throughout the entire powerband. A flow bench is a good tool, but it isn't the end all be all.
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Old 07-06-2010, 08:05 AM   #14
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Post Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

Great example. There is also tests were the ips manifold is making 40whp more than itbs at 9000 rpm. But you see, itbs is a generic term whether they are twms or hayward, but IPS manifold is not that generic. Depending on the powerband and cams and motor in general, it really depends. As a head porter in training you should know this already.
ITBs are more sensitive to engine changes than manifolds are. Most street cars do not make more power with itbs than a ported RBC for example. But they do look badass and sound great.
On the dyno I did witness and easy 25whp gain after 8000 rpm when using the ips manifold vs RBC. Your attempt to throw a small jab is noted though, good luck selling more ITBs :p
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Old 07-06-2010, 08:57 AM   #15
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

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Originally Posted by hondaballs View Post
There is a problem with flowing manifolds...it is useless data with the plenum on. Basically you can cut the plenum off and then flow the runner, but that doesn't tell you much about the manifold.

Just an example, someone we know flowed their head with ITBs and with an IPS manifold. The head lost 10+ cfm with the ITBs on the head (i can't remember the exact number) and only 3 or so CFM with the manifold. So naturally they went with the manifold, and made good power. A few weeks ago they switched to a set of properly sized ITBs and the car picked up 20-30hp throughout the entire powerband. A flow bench is a good tool, but it isn't the end all be all.
ok..so the question remains...were the "properly sized ITB's" the same ones that were tested on the flow bench?Also...testing on a flow bench is generic as you have to test at different air speeds/densities to really see how they'll preform at low,mid and high rpms.
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Old 07-06-2010, 10:37 AM   #16
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

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Originally Posted by hondaballs View Post
There is a problem with flowing manifolds...it is useless data with the plenum on. Basically you can cut the plenum off and then flow the runner, but that doesn't tell you much about the manifold.

Just an example, someone we know flowed their head with ITBs and with an IPS manifold. The head lost 10+ cfm with the ITBs on the head (i can't remember the exact number) and only 3 or so CFM with the manifold. So naturally they went with the manifold, and made good power. A few weeks ago they switched to a set of properly sized ITBs and the car picked up 20-30hp throughout the entire powerband. A flow bench is a good tool, but it isn't the end all be all.
That was me that posted above. I didn't log him out when i got here this morning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikos View Post
Great example. There is also tests were the ips manifold is making 40whp more than itbs at 9000 rpm. But you see, itbs is a generic term whether they are twms or hayward, but IPS manifold is not that generic. Depending on the powerband and cams and motor in general, it really depends. As a head porter in training you should know this already.
ITBs are more sensitive to engine changes than manifolds are. Most street cars do not make more power with itbs than a ported RBC for example. But they do look badass and sound great.
On the dyno I did witness and easy 25whp gain after 8000 rpm when using the ips manifold vs RBC. Your attempt to throw a small jab is noted though, good luck selling more ITBs
I didn't make a blatant effort at taking a jab at IPS so I apologize if it came off that way. I just used it as a real back to back example and typed what was coming across my brain. I have also seen that manifold make more power than a small set of throttle bodies just as you said. I wasn't trying to start stuff, so there is no real need to try and jab back and forth. Is this a technical forum or not?
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:24 PM   #17
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Post Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

Luke, maybe I was just excited after touching the Spintron a few days ago and seeing the delta curve on the computer 10k rpm.

A jab whether its on purpose or by accident is still a jab, and technical information with some jabs here and there is fine. We don't want to be like clubrsx or honda tech.

Itbs are great and are used in some of the greatest cars ever made. In the quest for all mighty power, people tend to forget about the midrange and focus solely on the thing that sells, and most often that is peak power.

So do ITBs help midrange overall or hurt it?
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Old 07-11-2010, 12:41 AM   #18
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

I have wondered what the best ITB setup would be for a road racing car with mid-range power in mind. I am seriously in the quest to build a motor with a stout power-band and not really all the interested in the top end hp like most.

I'm guessing i should just look into running a decent intake manifold like the RRC or possibly Skunk2.

The only other advantage you get with ITBs is instantaneous throttle response.
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Old 07-11-2010, 09:51 AM   #19
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

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I have wondered what the best ITB setup would be for a road racing car with mid-range power in mind. I am seriously in the quest to build a motor with a stout power-band and not really all the interested in the top end hp like most.

I'm guessing i should just look into running a decent intake manifold like the RRC or possibly Skunk2.

The only other advantage you get with ITBs is instantaneous throttle response.
think about this for a second..is that throttle response going to compensate for the midrange of ITB's?I don't personally THINK that the engine getting on power a split second earlier is going to make much of a difference when compared to an engine that make 5-10 more hp from the low to midrange.Having a good midrange is a bit more useful than lightening fast throttle response to your average recreational hot lapper.
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:55 AM   #20
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Default Re: ITB's Pros and Cons ** Daily Driver**

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think about this for a second..is that throttle response going to compensate for the midrange of ITB's?I don't personally THINK that the engine getting on power a split second earlier is going to make much of a difference when compared to an engine that make 5-10 more hp from the low to midrange.Having a good midrange is a bit more useful than lightening fast throttle response to your average recreational hot lapper.
Well i'm sure there is a way to tune the ITB setup for mid-range torque. They're not just for high rpm hp. You figure with longer, and narrower velocity stacks would provide better mid-range.

Throttle response is just a pro to having ITBs. And when you do have a beast N/A setup and the experience to back it up. I'm sure that the ITBs response comes useful.
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