Carbing Radiator Reservoir - setup questions

6spd_EK · Aug 17, 2008

I am going to be hooking up a Carbing Radiator Reservoir & have a few questions.

here is diagram of how it should be hooked up

my question is there some fitting outlet that is on the motor that can be used for the line that runs from the motor to the reservoir (see the "coolant with cavitation" bubble)

I was thinking of using a hasport adapter on the lower hose... does anyone know what size fitting that takes? I am guessing 3/4 npt maybe?

janelle · Aug 17, 2008

The threads on the Hasport hose adapter are the same as the threads on the fan switch - M18 x 1.5.

There's also the k-tuned thermostat housing.

6spd_EK · Aug 18, 2008

thanks for the thread size & pitch :up: just ordered an earl's metric to -6an adapter

could I run the line, from to where everybody runs the temp sender (for swaps), to the reservoir?

janelle · Aug 18, 2008

I don't see why you couldn't.

I don't have any practical experience with coolant expansion tanks/systems as a whole. However, in theory, it looks as though you would want the port on the engine that you're using to route line from, and then into to the expansion tank, to be as high up in the coolant jacket of the cylinder head as possible. Then, again, in theory, you would want to be sure to place the expansion tank on a higher elevation than that outlet port on the cylinder head - allowing air generated via water pump cavitation to have an easy path out of the coolant loop.

I don't believe the water jacket in the cylinder head goes much higher than the port where most people place their water temperature senders.

SickSilver_ep3 · Aug 18, 2008

can someone explain this in a nutshell ive never seen this before.

kommon_sense · Aug 18, 2008

According to the picture, this adds 3 extra coolant lines to the system. What is this intended to accomplish?

6spd_EK · Aug 18, 2008

Its supposed to help draw any air (especially created by cavaitation of the pump @ high rpms) out of the coolant system.

not sure if I can mount the carbing reservoir high enough in the engine bay - so it sits above all the other lines tho

Blazed · Aug 18, 2008

So basically to get air bubbles out?

kommon_sense · Aug 18, 2008

Should cavitation be an issue if you are using the correct sized crank pulley? I thought that was one of the reasons that the ITR crank pulley was smaller... To reduce potentially overdriving accessories (water pump) at high rpms.

I don't know man. I think you might be trying to fix a non-problem and seriously complicating your plumbing.

Do you know that you are experiencing cavitation or at what point it beings to occur?

jon v · Aug 18, 2008

it will also allow you to fill the system and drain the air from somewhere other than your radiator... Placing it at the highest point in the system it will draw all the air in to the tank and you could have a radiator with no cap. This is what I plan on doing just for packaging issues with my setup and not having room for a rad behind the rad support, I am going to put it in front like an intercooler and have a resivour to fill from...

The only thing I see it doing is making it easier to mount a radiator... Pacman did something similar on his old CRX.

Where did you get the tank, and how much was it? Any pics?

xproductionz · Aug 19, 2008

the skylines have a similar setup

TheMidasTouch · Aug 19, 2008

This is a very common setup from the factory on many vehicles. WRX's have them in stock form and it helps tremendously. It is really helpful on dedicated race setups where electric water pumps are a non option. Here is a good example from a well known drag car.

Roscoe P. Coltrane · Aug 19, 2008

Basically speaking - it's constantly bleeding your coolant system.

kommon_sense · Aug 19, 2008

ok. so then here is the question. why does the system need to be constantly bled? Where is the air being introduced from?

jon v · Aug 19, 2008

I don't know that it is being constantly introduced...

On a race setup when motors are coming in and out it would make bleeding the system much easier. It also would take away the need to prop up the front of the car to get teh radiator cap above the rest of the system...

For me having the reserviour at a high and accesible spot makes it worth it. tuck the radiator away and don't worry about it.

Here is Pacmans setup on the old CRX
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=869&highlight=surge+tank+pacman

Here are some pics from his setup and some more info from the thread.
I really like the solid coolant pipes...

and here's an explanation from the C&R Radiators site:

C&R Racing said:
SURGE TANKS

Also known as expansion tanks, fill cans and header tanks

Using a surge tank as part of your racecar cooling system is a very good decision. Any proper racecar cooling system will incorporate a surge tank. When used properly, it is the ideal manner of filling your system, trapping air, and moving the radiator cap from vulnerable areas where pressure surges can unseat the cap momentarily.

On the return side of a cooling system, pressure can surge as high as 45-50 psi. This is due to sudden changes in pump speed (RPM related) and characteristics of the heat cycle as well as circulation in the system. When the radiator cap is on the radiator, particularly the return side, it is susceptible to this condition. A surge tank isolates the cap from these areas.

Surge tanks should be mounted as high as possible, at the highest point in the cooling system, to serve as an air trap and means for expansion. Plumb a –10 line to the water pump and a –6 line from the highest point of the radiator to the surge tank. This draws air to the tank where it is trapped. Approximately 1/3 to 1/2 of the tank should be air space to create an air “spring” allowing for temperature expansion. Purging all air from the system is the ultimate goal. To optimize the cooling system and insure that all air is purged, use a swirl pot in the return water line in combination with the surge tank.

Due to the unique nature of swirl pots, C & R recommends that each specific application and system be evaluated to determine optimum performance. Therefore, C & R Racing does not offer a “generic” swirl pot, but will tailor a custom swirl pot to your system.

C & R Racing specializes in customized racing cooling systems, and can insure maximum protection for your engine investment and performance.

signalpuke · Aug 20, 2008

Cool pic!
Could the same setup not be made with a catch can?

jon v · Aug 20, 2008

The system needs to stay preasurized...

TheMidasTouch · Aug 20, 2008

The can would have to be fitted for/allready have a radiator cap fitting to keep the system pressurized while giving you a point to fill the fluid from. Also the AN fittings would have to be low on the can vs high to allow for the resivoir fill volume.

TheMidasTouch · Aug 20, 2008

And to actually help answer your question

sorry.

You will want to get your coolant source from the hot side outlet. Somewhere like the heater hose feed, IACV line, or use an adapter in the upper radiator hose. Just make sure it's coming out of the #4 cylinder side of the head.

6spd_EK · Aug 20, 2008

Midas - just to clarify

like I stated in my previous post... I am planning on running a 3/8" npt -> -4an fitting here & running hose from that to the reservoir inlet. sound good?

TheMidasTouch · Aug 20, 2008

Sh!t, my fault I should have read your last post. Yes, thats actually perfect. its one of the highest points available on the hot side coolant outlets. It should work beautifully.

I'm sorry, i've been working on a difficult project at work and my minds kinda moving slow... lol

6spd_EK · Aug 21, 2008

cool - now the only trick will to be to mount the reservoir inlets higher than my fitting there... shouldn't be to hard

(I got 20ft of -4an hose :silly

thanks for your (& everybody elses) input :up: been a big help

Strokergsr · Jan 13, 2009

I have a similar Greddy can here that a customer purchased and I was a little confused at why it seemed to be over complicated and how you were supposed to come up with the extra, yet all small diameter, coolant lines to go to it. It wouldnt be that difficult really but why lol.

We did ours a fairly simple way on this car but should be just as effective pretty much.

On the spout off the head we welded on our "swirl pot"/fill point higher than the outlet, we capped off the normal fill on the radiator aswell as cut it down the width a little more, ran the line from the pot outlet(lower than the inlet) to the radiator(front mounted but not for the sake of bleeding the system), the line from what was originally the bottom of the radiator is going to our electric water pump, and then from the pump up into the K-Tuned plate and engine. The only thing left is to mount a overflow reservoir and run a line to the "Swirl Pot". We will mount the overflow lower than the fill aswell.

Here are just a few pics.

Keep in mind im no engineer but system makes since to me as far as being efficient and usefull. I still wonder if air will be cought in the upper side of the radiator the way it is but we'll see.

The fittings coming off the swirl pot should also be at somewhat of a tangent angle to the cylinder and both to flow in the same direction to create a flow of a literal swirling motion. This is one of the big parts in bleeding the air aswell. On the Greddy one the fittings actually protrude inside of the cylinder an inch or so to help that motion which I though was a good idea I wish we had also done

J23civicsi · Jan 17, 2016

Bringing a topic from the dead big time here but I've been doing some researching and haven't came up with an answer.

Would a coolant surge tank (i.e. swirl pot) be needed for an electric water pump since the reason for the tank is to bleed pressure spikes due to sudden rpm increases making the impeller rpm higher? With the electric Meizure pump, the water speed/pressure should stay the same no matter what rpm.

Am I over thinking the setup here?

jon v · Jan 13, 2009

Nice info...

6spd_EK · Oct 28, 2011

back from the dead - here's a few more pics

-6an return going to the lower hose. I used a K-tuned swivel neck T-stat housing (instead of an inline hose adapter)

I ran a -4an line from the highest point in the upper coolant passage (where most put the b-series water temp sensor)

the other -4an runs to the top of the radiator (over flow spout)

Carbing Radiator Reservoir - setup questions

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