Formula One Pics - food for thought - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum

nikos · 04-14-2008, 10:18 AM

Small gift for all the k20a.org readers... You better sit down for this one.

**CJM** · 04-14-2008, 10:22 AM

If anyone notices the ferrari's this year, there is a MAHLE decal behind the radiator inlets on the side of the car kind of small

great post Nikos

**TrueZen** · 04-14-2008, 10:30 AM

They're. . . . just. . . . .so . . . . . beautiful!

Awesome post Nikos, thanks

JDMEG6 · 04-14-2008, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJM

If anyone notices the ferrari's this year, there is a MAHLE decal behind the radiator inlets on the side of the car kind of small

great post Nikos

That suprises me Mahle has a bad rep with the Hseries crowd

. Those are some quality pictures! Wow

nikos · 04-14-2008, 10:41 AM

97 grams for a piston... that is pretty nuts

2point · 04-14-2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikos

97 grams for a piston... that is pretty nuts

18,000 rpm is nuts.

Great pics! V10 Beams

99EKB18 · 04-14-2008, 11:22 AM

In 2006 Ferrari & McLaren Mercedes are known to be able to rev to 22000rpm (2.4 V8s) during qualifying. Currently they are rev limit to 19000rpm (from 2007).

**kevinoneill** · 04-14-2008, 12:15 PM

wow i love the that piston picture! loosing weight everywhere possible on it. the ribs!

**zerotraction** · 04-14-2008, 12:42 PM

Pankl rods =O!
The pistons and head quench perfectly. First hand showing of how race engines use quench areas, in the top picture it appears to be using dimpled valves with negative of the valve dimple in the pocket. Interesting.

**drhonda** · 04-14-2008, 03:09 PM

wow...

I really would like a set of these for my motor

LSVtec92Hatch · 04-14-2008, 09:16 PM

I actually took one of those pics. But im not going to say which one.

The thing is, the stuff thats being run now looks different. Thats the only reason those pics are even available.

LSVtec92Hatch · 04-14-2008, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99EKB18

In 2006 Ferrari & McLaren Mercedes are known to be able to rev to 22000rpm (2.4 V8s) during qualifying. Currently they are rev limit to 19000rpm (from 2007).

This is false. 20k RPM was the max achieved and this was only in the dyno cell. They also didnt raise the RPM limit for qualifying due to the fact that the same engine has to be used for Qualy and the race per the rules.

**TrueZen** · 04-15-2008, 01:15 AM

Hmmm, I'm wondering if there would be a significant aerodynamic difference in the placement of the fuel rails inside the intake area. Notice in the second and last picture that both BMW and Toyota had the rail placed directly above the intake trumpet(at least during their V-10 days), versus Ferrari who seem to have a central rail with the injectors extending over the trumpets.

I've also notice a difference in the intake volume between the teams. Notice that both the Ferrari and BMW seem to be fairly square while the Toyota is very much "V"ed off. Might this cause a lack of air ingestion? Who knows. It might just be another one of those crazy F1 myths/conspiracies.

Also I love the very first pic which shows what looks to be a clutch pack at the end of the crank, hell, I thought the Porsche Carrera GT's clutch was small(8"), this might definately top that.

Of course all of this seems to be during the V-10 era, so we can't directly correspond these pics to what's happening today. Too bad. Still a beautiful work of engineering to behold.

Edit: Can anyone find any pics of a cutaway/internals of a recent semi-automatic gearbox? I'm really interested in seeing that.

blueshark123 · 04-15-2008, 09:44 AM

Nice post I would love to see a dyno graph of one of these engines.

CHR!S · 04-15-2008, 11:33 AM

its amazing how they can use less material for the rod, i wonder if its stronger with the ribbing as opposed to a solid rod

heres an article i found, might give some people ideas as far as building their K motors in the future
http://www.f1technical.net/articles/4

talonxracer · 04-15-2008, 01:23 PM

What a WORK OF ART ! ! !

wadzii · 04-23-2008, 03:48 AM

i have a couple of those mahle f1 pistons.. pretty bad ass stuff

Import Builders · 04-23-2008, 10:52 AM

I think this perfectly illustrates a really good cylinder head design, and just how poor the K20 cylinder head design is on the intake port in stock form.

Look at the head in the picture on the right, and notice how steep the short turn is as it comes down to the valve, its very steep. Versus a K20 where its virtually no angle at all, and you can look in the port and see the whole valve almost because it has barely a short turn, its almost straight. This is why the K20 is so difficult to get to flow alot more, because the air isn't flowing around the entire circumference of the valve, and is mostly flowing around just 1 side. But when you look at the F1 head, the air comes down at a steep angle on the valve, like a faucet sort of, so it flows around the entire valve more effectively. Every single pro racing head I have ever seen looks sort of like that F1 head, the short turn is steep, which is the opposite of a K20. If you look at a B16A head, you can get the B16A head to flow alot more than a K20 head with 33MM valves because of this design. Because the B16A has a much steeper entry because of the short turn curvature.

But what do I know right, I don't port heads.

Jeff

**ELFATHER** · 04-24-2008, 10:31 AM

i can haz?

fourthchirpin · 04-24-2008, 08:54 PM

these heads have to flow, motors are seeing 12k + rpms. comparing these motors to k20's are like comparing apples to oranges.

04-14-2008, 10:18 AM	#1
nikos Administrator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: here Posts: 12,972	Formula One Pics - food for thought Small gift for all the k20a.org readers... You better sit down for this one. __________________ New K20a.org Phone Number TXT us or leave us a message for anything. (415) 343- k20a "A challenge for those who go. A dream for those who stay behind.” k24a motors for sale every day $1000 shipped k24a fully Built Shortblock complete $2500 Shipped No core needed *______* Thank you for supporting k20a.org , sponsoring k20a.org and for being a registered user http://www.wfp.org/<---The World Food Programme is the world's largest humanitarian agency fighting hunger worldwide.

04-14-2008, 10:22 AM	#2
CJM LetsBreakTheFukcinLaw Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NomNomNomDeeDee, PA Posts: 13,349	Re: Formula One Pics - food for thought If anyone notices the ferrari's this year, there is a MAHLE decal behind the radiator inlets on the side of the car kind of small great post Nikos __________________ K21EK. Mugen. Four.Function vouches- Nikos, Marc P, Blazed, formuladee, El Father, SignalPuke, seek167, RBSJNH, Civic87, DrTye, BLK VTi, June, Jones83, Jon V, K20sircoupe, Adam West, #2, Becoming, MJ23FE, The SWORD, Dr Honda, more... SeeKSPEED soon to take over the east coast...

04-14-2008, 10:41 AM	#5
nikos Administrator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: here Posts: 12,972	Re: Formula One Pics - food for thought 97 grams for a piston... that is pretty nuts __________________ New K20a.org Phone Number TXT us or leave us a message for anything. (415) 343- k20a "A challenge for those who go. A dream for those who stay behind.” k24a motors for sale every day $1000 shipped k24a fully Built Shortblock complete $2500 Shipped No core needed *______* Thank you for supporting k20a.org , sponsoring k20a.org and for being a registered user http://www.wfp.org/<---The World Food Programme is the world's largest humanitarian agency fighting hunger worldwide.

04-14-2008, 11:22 AM	#7
99EKB18 K20a.org Basic User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 105	Re: Formula One Pics - food for thought In 2006 Ferrari & McLaren Mercedes are known to be able to rev to 22000rpm (2.4 V8s) during qualifying. Currently they are rev limit to 19000rpm (from 2007).

04-14-2008, 12:15 PM	#8
kevinoneill Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,267	Re: Formula One Pics - food for thought wow i love the that piston picture! loosing weight everywhere possible on it. the ribs! __________________ .. Last edited by kevinoneill; 04-14-2008 at 12:17 PM..

04-14-2008, 12:42 PM	#9
zerotraction K20a.org Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: S. Connecticut Posts: 4,792	Re: Formula One Pics - food for thought Pankl rods =O! The pistons and head quench perfectly. First hand showing of how race engines use quench areas, in the top picture it appears to be using dimpled valves with negative of the valve dimple in the pocket. Interesting. __________________ RIP Nick Haines... aka NHSwaps13203 ______________________

04-14-2008, 03:09 PM	#10
drhonda Fear no evo Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Here and there Posts: 7,367	Re: Formula One Pics - food for thought wow... I really would like a set of these for my motor __________________ DIY and FAQ READ One stop shop: www.karcepts.com Honda City Motor-sports.

04-14-2008, 09:16 PM	#11
LSVtec92Hatch New Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 41	Re: Formula One Pics - food for thought I actually took one of those pics. But im not going to say which one. The thing is, the stuff thats being run now looks different. Thats the only reason those pics are even available. __________________ insert list of material possessions here

04-15-2008, 09:44 AM	#14
blueshark123 K20a.org Master User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 1,003	Re: Formula One Pics - food for thought Nice post I would love to see a dyno graph of one of these engines. __________________ 654whp 470wtq@28psi on C16 460whp 300wtq@15psi on 93 pump 10.801 @ 137.72 MPH

04-15-2008, 11:33 AM	#15
CHR!S K20a.org Basic User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 227	Re: Formula One Pics - food for thought its amazing how they can use less material for the rod, i wonder if its stronger with the ribbing as opposed to a solid rod heres an article i found, might give some people ideas as far as building their K motors in the future http://www.f1technical.net/articles/4

04-15-2008, 01:23 PM	#16
talonxracer K20a.org Master User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: upstate ny Posts: 2,036	Re: Formula One Pics - food for thought What a WORK OF ART ! ! ! __________________ 02' USDM CTR, and a whole lot of fun parts! If the cam's are not IPS or Hytech, they are not worth installing!

04-23-2008, 03:48 AM	#17
wadzii K20a.org Basic User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 128	Re: Formula One Pics - food for thought i have a couple of those mahle f1 pistons.. pretty bad ass stuff

04-23-2008, 10:52 AM	#18
Import Builders RETIRED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 1,141	Re: Formula One Pics - food for thought I think this perfectly illustrates a really good cylinder head design, and just how poor the K20 cylinder head design is on the intake port in stock form. Look at the head in the picture on the right, and notice how steep the short turn is as it comes down to the valve, its very steep. Versus a K20 where its virtually no angle at all, and you can look in the port and see the whole valve almost because it has barely a short turn, its almost straight. This is why the K20 is so difficult to get to flow alot more, because the air isn't flowing around the entire circumference of the valve, and is mostly flowing around just 1 side. But when you look at the F1 head, the air comes down at a steep angle on the valve, like a faucet sort of, so it flows around the entire valve more effectively. Every single pro racing head I have ever seen looks sort of like that F1 head, the short turn is steep, which is the opposite of a K20. If you look at a B16A head, you can get the B16A head to flow alot more than a K20 head with 33MM valves because of this design. Because the B16A has a much steeper entry because of the short turn curvature. But what do I know right, I don't port heads. Jeff __________________ Import Builders ; IB Spec/ http://www.blueprintracing.com/ We specialize in Engine Building, and we have our own line of every important Engine part you could ever want that makes Horsepower. jeff@blueprintracing.com

04-24-2008, 10:31 AM	#19
ELFATHER Heart breaker. Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 10,905	Re: Formula One Pics - food for thought i can haz? __________________ MY BUILD UP THREAD---> http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32840 -HECTOR *http://www.kamispeed.com* hector@kamispeed.com http://blog.kamispeed.com/ Pm me if you need custom brake/clutch lines

04-24-2008, 08:54 PM	#20
fourthchirpin K20a.org Basic User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 133	Re: Formula One Pics - food for thought these heads have to flow, motors are seeing 12k + rpms. comparing these motors to k20's are like comparing apples to oranges. __________________ find your place away from the masses and innovate in any step or process. coming soon: 24 valves of pain with 3190cc of adrenline