Call for better tuning quality! - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:37 PM   #1
LotusElise
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Arrow Call for better tuning quality!

I revise ECU calibrations since a few years just for my own learning and know how build up. I've learned the theory like the math, the models and the physic behind e.g. anti-knock-control-strategies or fuel-mass-calculation-models through my studies and job, but as you know knowhow is nothing without experience I am trying to solve as much as posted issues here as I can.

What really often comes my mind, seeing all these different kind of calibrations, is WTF are some of these so called Tuners doing out there for hard earned money of their customers? Nothing would mean a lot of in some cases, sometimes they do just...



I've done research on if other guys do have the same experience as I have, as I have the feeling some guys in the Tuning industry just fu...k up their customers. I found something which boils it down to an essence and it comes from a tuner which I greatly respect. He have more than 10 years of experience in the tuning industry. If you don't listen to me, listen to Jeff to what he is pointing at.



Source: evans-tuning.com

He just nailed it down. Guys, please keep in mind, tuning is not only duty once you modified your engine setup it is the finalization step of your result you get. The best engine setup is just useless if the tune is lacking in quality, it even can destroy your engine!

Do your research here at K20a.org or other platforms on feedback to tuners, like you do it on engine parts or even harder. The K-Series engine is one of the best performing 4-cylinder engine plattforms on that planet, it deserve it!

Good luck with your project.

Markus

BTW, a discussion on what we can do for better tuning quality at K20a.org would be nice, as the topic ECU and Tuning here at K20a.org is underrated and could do much more than just being a collection of tuning and ECU issues.
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Old 04-11-2017, 03:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Call for better tuning quality!

Keep it clear in preparation:


Keep it safe during tuning session:

Last edited by LotusElise; 04-21-2017 at 08:01 AM..
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:06 AM   #3
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Arrow The Lambda concept - a simple world changing view!

You all know the stoichiometric AFR is specific for every fuel, because of it's chemical combination of carbon- and hydrogen-molecules (further could be e.g. oxygen -> alcohols). The following list gives you examples of that (can various with different brands and makes!):
  • gasoline st. AFR = 14.71
  • Methanol st. AFR = 6.47
  • Ethanol st. AFR = 9.00
  • E85 st. AFR = 9.87
  • LPG st. AFR = 15.5
So once you tune your engine for best torque at one operation point of load and engine speed you tune for a specific actual AFR, e.g. with gasoline 12.8. But for which actual AFR do you tune with e.g. Ethanol?`

Knowing the Lambda concept it is easy to calculate a first thump rule for the actual AFR, because

Lambda = actual AFR / st. AFR

with one calculation step we get to

actual AFR = Lambda x st. AFR.

Now the only question is, which Lambda value is the right one. This is also simple.

Source: cliffb75 at photobucket.com

We search for a high combustion speed and at the same time for a high combustion efficiency (= reduced emissions), which means a lambda (every application and every fuel is different) of around 0.85-0.90 for a NA engine. With that in mind we would get a first start actual AFR for Methanol of

5.69 = 0.88 x 6.47.

For tuners it is much more simple to think in Lambda values, as the combustion reaction chemistry, it's thermodynamic and all the calculation just is almost the same once you talk in Lambda. If you talk in AFR numbers, you always must know which fuel is used!

Markus
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Old 04-24-2017, 12:22 PM   #4
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Default Re: Call for better tuning quality!

Agree with everything you said Markus. One good reason why these so-called "tooners" can get away with crappy tunes is because many car enthusiasts are not aware of what constitutes a good tune. All they know is "my car pulls so hard now," not knowing whether the tuner accounted for the owner's driving style, where the car will be used, fuel choice, or if the tuner went aggressive with timing.
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Old 04-25-2017, 01:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: Call for better tuning quality!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaiceps View Post
...One good reason why these so-called "tooners" can get away with crappy tunes is because many car enthusiasts are not aware of what constitutes a good tune...
That's a good point Klaiceps! The reason why we should summarize a rough clarification in the following posts at which points one can find out if the tuner is a good or bad address for tuning.

Suggestions are greatly welcome!

Markus
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Old 04-25-2017, 03:53 PM   #6
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Default Re: Call for better tuning quality!

The hard part with educating everyone on tuning is that tuning requires an understanding of engine dynamics and how all of the engine components and sensors work with each other. This is not a topic that can be summarized in a couple paragraphs.
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Old 04-28-2017, 03:03 AM   #7
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Default Re: Call for better tuning quality!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaiceps View Post
...This is not a topic that can be summarized in a couple paragraphs.
We will find a way in that complex and difficult field of engine tuning, at least to make guys sensitive for the topic, when reading this thread . I think a good start will be the area of safety: engine functions, surrounding and measurement equipment.

Markus
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