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Any Skunk2 Ultra 1 cam reviews?

38K views 86 replies 11 participants last post by  flesh199 
#1 ·
Looking for reviews on the skunk2 ultra1 cams in a K20 or K24 motor.

Have seen very few dyno sheets and reviews for the ultra 2,3&4 but no reviews the ultra1.
 
#2 ·
Looking for reviews on the skunk2 ultra1 cams in a K20 or K24 motor...Have seen very few...for the ultra 2,3&4 but no reviews the ultra1.
Me too! If they hadn't these long, high speed exhaust duration I would have tested them.

The Ultra series cams tend to be racing specialist cams compared to their counterparts from TODA according my simulations, where they show better high end (beyond 8.2 krpm) but slightly loss before that point of interception in terms of torque (S2U1 vs TODA A3). The higher lift and the lenghtly exhaust duration are responsible for that comparison result.

Anyway, I only know their lobe profile. Would be really interesting to read or to see a review about them (noice, dyno result) as their opening ramps are harder than the TODA ones...

Markus
 
#3 ·
Interesting observations, however it's commonly known that advertised specs are not really that of the actual cam profile...

It's expected that they would perform very well in a stock 2.0 litre with bolt ons, possibly bettering the powerband of other stage 2 cams currently offered
 
#9 ·
Different camshaft characters...not comparable

Isn't Toda C/D cam more similar to S2U1 than A3's?
Hi deibral, that's a good question.

Lobe wise:
  • Duration of the S2U1 (258 °ca@0.05") is similar to TODA A3 (257 °ca@0.05")...attention, advertised numbers are rated at different specs.
  • Lift is pretty different 13.7 mm vs. 13.0 mm
Power wise:
Those aren't comparable. The 0.7 mm higher lift gives them more area under the lift curve, which shift's the best supported engine speed bandwidth to the right. Even a TODA C and D would have a broader high VE plateau than the S2U1, as the higher lift reduces velocity at valve a bit, for compensation higher engine speeds are necessary, but as duration is the same the VE support gets more narrowed. Just different characters of those to cam types.

The S2U1 would like to have a bit more displacement than the TODA to have the same mean mixture speed at valve plane for the same engine speed bandwidth...something like 90x86.

Just my point of view to that :D.

Markus
 
#13 ·
Rough comparison

Oh man, that's too much for me ;)
I needed also a second to accept this specification confusion of the cam manufacturers. Germany is well known for standardization in everything...the big advantage of that is there are clear rules things have to be specified, according to which quality process and such stuff. A fact that makes me still wonder why to hell VW wasn't able to read the EPA rules sufficiently, which should be a German innate ability :wink:...my conclusion, this just can happen once they wanted to cheat!

So to which TODA cams would you compare S2U2 considering duration?
As duration specification is just a measure at a certain angle of the cam, this question has many pitfalls power wise :D. Just concerning the duration it is more near to TODA D.

Markus
 
#14 ·
Of course they cheated and knew about that. As I think German cars are very solid (ok, maybe not all engines), but German government made everything what was possible to eliminate foreing competition from UE market by setting very restrictive emission rules and other laws that were supporting German companies than in fact these companies cheated competition. And now VW buyers in Europe will not even receive compansation for buying VW cars that are not enviromental safe - opposite to USA. :thud:

But back to the subject. I wonder a lot why there are so few new Skunk2 Ultra cams dynos despite the fact these cams were released a year ago?

The same with DC Elite series. It's more than 6 months and nothing. Do they sell it or is it just a paper war?
 
#15 ·
I wonder a lot why there are so few new Skunk2 Ultra cams dynos despite the fact these cams were released a year ago?
I know racers here in Europe running S2U2, which is very uncommon as here cams from oversea haven't best reputation, not only by the S2 issues with the Tuner series for the B- and K-series engines years ago.

The new Ultra series is a big step forward: forged steel core material, well designed opening and closing ramps but still a racing specialist cam-wise...those make forget the time where deceleration was most hazardous for the valvetrain (especially the TCT) due to that very aggressive ramp design of the former Tuner series. TODA did this step also some time ago, but had less issues before using forged materials...always best reputation. Here in Europe Schrick Camshafts are also widely spread into VW, Opel, BMW, Audi, ..., scene.

The same with DC Elite series. It's more than 6 months and nothing. Do they sell it or is it just a paper war?
I know a guy (also from Europe) going to test them. But those guys should report themselves about it, most of them are K20a.org members...I guess those cams are just due to their race character mainly used in racing...and racers seldom spread information's about their engine test results and setups...a systematically restriction maybe?!

What I miss are teasers from the manufacturers. Do they think those cams are selling themselves? Seems to be a business of lower profit or it is just simple buzz marketing that makes it?! But yes, it is very silent out of that corner.

Markus
 
#17 ·
...everything is keep secret now,i miss the old days
LOL :D...read my engine build thread, you find there already too much of what is today seen as "secret". Maybe with some time there will be a member posting S2U1 results. There low speed cam lobes are already pretty big, giving the 86x86 engine an idle speed of beyond 1000 rpm...bigger displacement helps to reduce it, as a 87x99 will have 800 rpm with those (same low speed lobe as S2U2). So I guess, those won't get very common in the K20 DD scene...more in the K24 DD one's.

Markus
 
#20 ·
I dont know about your experience with these cam(ultra series)...But in my car they idle at 1000 rpm correctly.If i go below that i dont like the way they idle for a somewhat street car :)
Thanks for your experience, flesh199! The specific engine setup uses a exhaust setup for racing which is maybe less restrictive than a street able one. But its good to know there is a bigger range of possible idle speeds.

As the exhaust pressure plays (beside ex cam retard, compression ratio, in cam is/should be always max retarded at idle, spark gap and intake port flow, mixture homogenization) a significant role how much cam overlap is sufficient for idle, this could give you a various of idle speeds beside how much misfire or half combustion cycles are personally accepted.

The specific 2 liter engine was around 1,250 rpm and was a bit rough...213 °ca@0.05" at intake and exhaust is quite big, as the system is sensitive to that and the above named parameters could lead to different idle speeds.

I guess you run your engine with 0W30 or something like that? A thicker oil would increase FMEP, so that the IACV will set a higher MAP to keep same idle speed as more fuel is necessary to equalize the torque demand to rotate the engine. The higher MAP reduces the residual gas mass to fresh mixture mass-ratio, so it is more easy for the combustion to end "completely" without coughing :D.

Just my :twocents: to the relation between cam and idle speed
 
#21 · (Edited)
Hi, my name is Andres Orozco and I live in Colombia South America, This is my contribution to this post I finished a month ago building my car (Civic Si 2008) purchase the Pro156 4piston racing head, Ferrea valve train and the new billet skunk2 ultra stage 2 cams base on their suggestion( 4piston) . I used to have drag Cartel drop in cams with my stock head with awesome results, yesterday at the dyno (dynapack)we got stuck at 210 hp and a ridiculous 140 lbft of torque. I believe that the problem relates to the fact that my block is stock (stock compression as well). I believe the cams want to see higher compression, My tuner suggested me to go with the 2.2. I also emailed Skunk2 and the advice that the cams that I have are over rated for my engine set up, also Luke from 4piston is telling me the probably I have bent a valve (compression test and cylinder leakage done and no problems). At this point I'm lost. This are my other modifications to the car: CTR oil pump, RRC manifold and TB, Exedy stage 1 clutch and flywheel, M&M Honda carbon intake box, ktuned fuel rail and RDX injectors, sk2 alpha header and invidia q300 exhaust with custom weld Magnaflow HFCC, hybrid racing chain tensioner and toda chain. I will retain my block stock and later I'll be getting a supercharger. (Kraftwerks).

Please excuse my English, and I appreciate any feedback.
 
#23 ·
$Piston ääähhh 4Piston business case

...Pro156 4piston racing head...skunk2 ultra stage 2 cams...yesterday at the dyno (dynapack)we got stuck at 210 hp and a ridiculous 140 lbft of torque. I believe that the problem relates to the fact that my block is stock (stock compression as well).
Hi Andres, first welcome to this forum...you better joined it earlier, as second I have to say the Pro156 alone is an oversize measure for a 86x86 engine:
  • intake port velocity is very low with this head and a 500 ccm/cylinder engine
  • exhaust port velocity is low with this head and a 500 ccm/cylinder engine
  • Only chance to increase velocity is increase engine speed and there you need a much smaller cam, because of your stock CR which is never recommendable to combine with an S2U2 cam.
I can't believe 4Piston recommended you a S2U2 + Pro156 for a stock 86x86 block. Even if you add a supercharger, the S2U2 are the wrongest cams for that due to their long opening duration. Its like recommending to use a tank to for to get rid of 1 mosquito/anopheles in your flat!

I believe the cams want to see higher compression, My tuner suggested me to go with the 2.2.
You better kept the previous engine setup: stock head and the DC 2.2, which is fine setup for a NA engine :)...get rid of the Pro156 head as long as you keep it NA.

I also emailed Skunk2 and the advice that the cams that I have are over rated for my engine set up
Those guys seems to be honest!

...Luke from 4piston is telling me the probably I have bent a valve (compression test and cylinder leakage done and no problems).
LOL :D bended valve? I can't believe one recommend an Pro156 head + S2U2 for an stock block...maybe someone of 4Piston had a knot in the synapses and did get you wrong?

At this point I'm lost. This are my other modifications to the car: CTR oil pump, RRC manifold and TB, Exedy stage 1 clutch and flywheel, M&M Honda carbon intake box, ktuned fuel rail and RDX injectors, sk2 alpha header and invidia q300 exhaust with custom weld Magnaflow HFCC, hybrid racing chain tensioner and toda chain. I will retain my block stock and later I'll be getting a supercharger. (Kraftwerks).
You aren't lost, you are here at K20a.org where you get help. Beside the RDX injectors, your setup seems to be ready for the SC option.

My first question, what is your power/torque goal with the NA and the SC engine setup?

Markus
 
#26 ·
Andreas,

This is whp not a hp right? What is your CR ratio on that engine?

I wouldn't say that this case is totally lost. You spent a lot of money on this head and before giving up and changing the cams I would try to make the engine breathe better. Try to port your RRC to make it flow better and change your intake into i.e. 3,5 inch CAI (HR). Good solutions would be also putting some thin gasket to bump the CR ratio a bit.

There is sth strange with your torque line. You also say you have bad idle behaviour. Could you post your map and your flashpro log with DD and WOT?

I have seen a built like yours that on CR 13:1, DC4.5 cams (14,5 mm lift) and 4pistons-like ported head made 270whp na K20.
 
#27 ·
Hi deibral, yes is WHP measured @ a Dynapack elevation of 1,495, (4,905 ft.) over sea level - 24° C ≈ 75,2° Fahrenheit.

My CR is stock 11.0:1, I also forgot to mention that my RRC is ported and polished. We did a test with no intake attached and no better results. :( also disconnected the exhaust form the header thinking that there was a restriction with the q300 no improvement as well.

I´ll try to post my datalog by the end of the week.

Andres
 
#28 ·
You will not get better results with intake detached for sure. Intake construction is to improve velocity, influence power on the basis of wave harmonics etc. If we could improve horsepower without intakes everyone would have done it already :)

With Skunk2 Ultra Stg. 2 cams you should be able to push your engine to 9200-9500 rpm.

Important thing is to answer the question if you want to stay NA or go SC. If NA, then I would stick with the head and go 12,5:1 CR with high comp pistons. 230-250whp would be in your range I think but this won't be a DD car when using these cams.
 
#29 ·
You are completely right, :) I know that the intake that I have is not the most flow efficient, but is close to stock and really quiet and it also looks good:new_slayer:. I definitely want to go SC

So what I´m thinking is sell the Ultras and get the DC 2.2 and jump to the Kraftwerks SC with the Pro156 head. what do you think?
 
#30 ·
I am NA guy and don't like SC and turbos so you would have to ask someone else. With SC I think you would be disappointed unless it's something at least like rotrex c38 and 330-350 whp.

As to the intakes... there are only 3 things that work on K-series. It's CAI... and then it's CAI...and the last thing is CAI. Everything else is crap and you will lose power comparing to stock, but will feel nice sound placebo effect.
 
#31 ·
Honestly I was going NA as well but SC or Turbo is the only way to get more HP for the money. Unfortunately as far as I know the Si because of the low hood can only accommodate a C30-94 Rotrex.

Totally agree with you on the CAI, besides sound and stock look I have a major problem, witch is water puddles. :nod:

Thanks for your input deibral
 
#32 · (Edited)
MikeySpec from Chicago had some good results a while back with S2U1's in a stock block K20A2 w/the required upgraded valvesprings. I'll see if i can find the dyno sheet he shared with me. He likes them and says they're his new go-to cams for stock block k20's.

***[EDIT] found our convo and dyno graph

some tidbits from our chat...

- S2U1's he goes no higher than 40 degrees VTC on stock block K20
- previous goto cams for stock block k20's:
"Rcrew r01 was my original cam...then skunk tuner2 was my shit...then basic bc2/pray2...now ultra 1"

dyno graph info:

- k20a2
- skunk ultra 1's w/skunk valve springs
- skunk alpha header + skunk pro intake manifold
- rdx 410cc injectors
- oem ported tb (opened up to 66mm)

Blue line = tuned ultra 1's / red line = tuned stock A2 cams
 

Attachments

#35 ·
Thanks for the update, man!

S2U1's he goes no higher than 40 degrees VTC on stock block K20
Very nice info, seems to be my assumptions for the valve lift with the S2U1 cam wasn't bad as it also says 43° VTC at maximum. So the opening ramp lift over crankangle of the intake valve is similar to TODA A3.

Did MickeySpec mentioned something about the idle speed and behaviour?

Markus
 
#41 · (Edited)
#52 ·
89x99 sleeved k24
12.8 final cr
carrillo pro a rod
prb pro 156 cylinder head
skunk2 ultra 2 cam
skunk2 xp valvetrain
35 vtc cam gear
skunk2 ultra race intake cnc ported by 4 piston
90mm skunk2 tb
725 cc id injectors
dtr/ssr 4-1 megaphone header
3 inch custom made exhaust.

This engine build was all made by me alone.The exhaust cam gear is degreed to spec also.So far the idle is at 1000 rpm with a little lope.

was street driven with 94 pump fuel,306 whp sae was tru the exhaust also.


This dyno sheet is my whp comparaison from 2011 to 2016...

2011 engine was 87.5x99
blueprint stage 3 camshafts
portflow valve job with stock prb head

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#60 ·
One more thing. For me there is sth like a gap considering intake manifold for K-series. You can find pretty good solution for standard K24/K20 (87x99) configuration like OEM ported manifolds (RBC&RRC). But for a fully built frank those manifolds seem to be not enough and the aftermarket solutions like Skunk2 Ultra Race are too much (they support top-end power after all). There is a gap in between which I, honestly, don't know what might fill.
 
#61 ·
I rode a full ported rrc on my 87.5x99 k24 for 4 years with good succes.I think that you are just looking for option to says that its not good combo or weak power.

My engine is not a DD and i know it ;)

This will be my last time posting for a while...
 
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