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LSD for track/daily driven car

16K views 16 replies 12 participants last post by  m5james 
#1 ·
What is the best type of LSD for circuit racing? Plus, which brand would you prefer, M factory, kaaz or quaife? Thanks!
 
#2 ·
You're assuming that everyone knows what your definition of "best" is. For the street, I'd go with a Quaife gear-type. For the track, it's not so clear, some people say that clutch-type LSDs are better, yet wear faster. Cost-wise, I'm not sure which is cheapest, so what's "best" depends what's most important to you.
 
#3 ·
Very true. For most street applications a gear type oem LSD should be more than enough for what you want to do. I plan on going with a MFactory 1 way gear type on my build which will be seeing 75% street/25% autox time.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I've ran both gear + clutch type and clutch type is DEFINITELY the better of the two performance wise hands down.

Clutch takes some getting use to tho especially coming from an OEM open diff or OEM gear type to a 1 way/1.5way clutch type. You will have to change your driving style up a bit, but once you get use to it, you'll never wanna go back to gear type. Trust me. If you decide to go clutch, I suggest you have it setup as a 1-way not 1.5-way. 1 way is how a gear type is setup and is easier to get accustomed to. 1.5way will lock up on deceleration and make the car feel like its understeering say during mid turn and you lift off throttle to try and get some rear vehicle rotation (I hated this aspect of the clutch type but adjusted my suspension a bit but eventually readjusted throttle modulation). 1-way is better because the clutch will not lock during decel, only acceleration. 2-way is even worse on decel, it will fully lock as much as it does on accel instead of lock half way (ie. .5).

Personally, I'm on an OS Giken clutch type LSD setup as a 1-way (OSG I believe is the cream of the crop brand for clutch types), but MFactory is right behind in performance not the same and several hundred less.

Gear type is usually cheaper than clutch.

Clutch require a bit more care/pampering than gear type because they tend to run 'hotter' because of the way the clutch type works with its clutches. So trans fluid changes are done more frequent than gear type (say after about 4 track days) and also need better trans fluid than gear type as well (torco RTF use for instance).

If you got the loot, I would suggest OS Giken clutch LSD as they're known to have bullet proof + maintenance free LSD's. If you want to save some $$$ go for an MFactory clutch/plate type or gear type. I have a handful of track buddies who run the MF clutch LSD and love it.....none have needed to maintenance theirs either in the few years they've been running theirs.

If you've never ran on an LSD before, perhaps you should take baby steps and run a gear type for about years time, then switch to a 1-way clutch type so you can feel the difference.
 
#16 ·
I've ran both gear + clutch type and clutch type is DEFINITELY the better of the two performance wise hands down.

Clutch takes some getting use to tho especially coming from an OEM open diff or OEM gear type to a 1 way/1.5way clutch type. You will have to change your driving style up a bit, but once you get use to it, you'll never wanna go back to gear type. Trust me. If you decide to go clutch, I suggest you have it setup as a 1-way not 1.5-way. 1 way is how a gear type is setup and is easier to get accustomed to. 1.5way will lock up on deceleration and make the car feel like its understeering say during mid turn and you lift off throttle to try and get some rear vehicle rotation (I hated this aspect of the clutch type but adjusted my suspension a bit but eventually readjusted throttle modulation). 1-way is better because the clutch will not lock during decel, only acceleration. 2-way is even worse on decel, it will fully lock as much as it does on accel instead of lock half way (ie. .5).

Personally, I'm on an OS Giken clutch type LSD setup as a 1-way (OSG I believe is the cream of the crop brand for clutch types), but MFactory is right behind in performance not the same and several hundred less.

Gear type is usually cheaper than clutch.

Clutch require a bit more care/pampering than gear type because they tend to run 'hotter' because of the way the clutch type works with its clutches. So trans fluid changes are done more frequent than gear type (say after about 4 track days) and also need better trans fluid than gear type as well (torco RTF use for instance).

If you got the loot, I would suggest OS Giken clutch LSD as they're known to have bullet proof + maintenance free LSD's. If you want to save some $$$ go for an MFactory clutch/plate type or gear type. I have a handful of track buddies who run the MF clutch LSD and love it.....none have needed to maintenance theirs either in the few years they've been running theirs.

If you've never ran on an LSD before, perhaps you should take baby steps and run a gear type for about years time, then switch to a 1-way clutch type so you can feel the difference.
+1 to OsGiken 1-way. I switched to this form an OEM helical and its muuuch better. Flat waay earlier (even before the apex on certain corners), point and shoot. I would not like this diff as a choice for anything other than a dedicated track car. I say this because unless you are at full send, the diff is noisy as hell and does not like slow speed (parking lot turns) on off throttle inputs. I get a ton of clicking and popping noises in and out of the paddock along with just rolling it around by hand in the garage.. lol It almost reminds me of the sound from a binding axle fwiw... but I am reassured that these noises are normal and it does awesome full bore out on the track.
 
#6 ·
I believe Katman used to run a Wavetrack and then switched to OS Giken and so far he has nothing but good things to say about OS Giken. I myself am using OS Giken but I came from a stock ITR LSD so I can't offer you any comparisons between Wavetrack and OS Giken. I will say though that OS Giken does allow me to get on the gas much sooner on track. Furthermore it is super daily drivable. My car now is my DD and I have also done many road trips with it.
 
#7 ·
I'm thinking about an LSD for next year as well Quaife and M factory are two I'm looking at. I've driven quaife on a few fwd cars and I remember a lot of torque steer and remember feeling like the wheel didn't want to center after.

Any feedback on the m factory? How is lockup compared to the quaife? I've only driven OSG on a few rwd cars and they are nice.

Lastly, dc5 type r transaxle? Worth it or just add it to my 02 type-s trans?
 
#8 ·
you after a gear or clutch type? I'd suggest gear type if your car is a daily driver. Less fluid change intervals vs. clutch type if that's something that will bother you.

MFactory is a great LSD brand (helical + clutch types). I have track buddies who run their clutch type with great success. None of them have had theirs serviced in years too and they're holding up fine. The price point is great on these too and the company support is there as well. I've never driven on a quaife myself, can't say but quaife has been around for a long time and are known good LSD's.

DC5R gearing KILLS the A2 trans by far in regards to acceleration. I highly suggest a DC5R transmission. 4.7 final drive + shortest 4-6th gears vs any of the other K transmissions. Fun gearing for sure and is track oriented.
 
#9 ·
Thanks for the info. The only on road travel time the car gets is driving to and from events. I'd guess it's about 7000-8000 miles a year most of which are highway.

This is my issue. :) Clutch type would be best especially in situations where the inside front gets light on weight. Most folks in autocross nationally seem to go with OSGeiken. And having driven them on a few RWD cars on them I do like the feel. However budget wise it won't work.

I think the M factory clutch types would be great, but I'm worried about lifespan and being stranded 1000 miles from home lol :)
 
#12 · (Edited)
Digging this thread up to add something I learned from OS Giken themselves - but it only applies to engines installed in the mid-engine position (like an Arial Atom or my own Midlana, or even a Porsche 911). After explaining my car (~400hp turbo K24 in a 1800-lb car) and its rear weight distribution, they recommended a "reverse 1.5-way" version of their LSD due to the weight distribution and being RWD. The reason this is mentioned is that you can't just drop any clutch-type LSD into a Honda without knowing how it's configured.
 
#17 ·
So with that said, am I screwing myself by adding in a stock LSD from a Civic Si? I'm an MR2 that's turbo K swapped as well, base RSX 5spd bit i want a 6th gear, so I bought an Si trans to remove it's LSD and 6th gearset only, swap them into my current 5spd, then reselling what's leftover.
 
#13 · (Edited)
an other point to add is that even the gear type LSDs are not purely 1 way.
they have differing torque biasing ratios for acceleration and deceleration.
This is adjusted with the friction coefficient of the roller's side faces against the case. One side determines what happens for acceleration, the other for deceleration.

Her an interesting post:
http://forums.focaljet.com/showthread.php/597609-Torsen-vs-Quaife-Bias-ratio-(REAL-answer-in-here!)

From driving a Torsen Typ B in my former supercharged Rover K Elise on track, I can tell you definitely, that they also act on deceleration.
IF you start to go sideways on the throttle and lift, it kind of pulls the car straight in a almost mechanical ESP fashion. With the open diff, you commonly spin the Elise once they are sideways. Pushing the clutch helps saving the car.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Aside from having a website that looks like it was written by a child, the PhatomGrip has characteristics more closely related to snake oil than it does a limited slip differential.

The design has no sacrificial clutches, so it's basically adding a pre-load to your drive gears and using the friction of the back of the gear against the diff housing. Direct metal on metal friction that will both offer a little bit of slip limiting and introduce a lot of metal into your differential/transmission:

http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/s...0001&thread=20090219-2-082235&style=printable

Save yourself the heartache. My suggestion is a gear type differential for a FWD application. Clutch type diffs can work, but because they're always trying to synchronize the speed of the left and right wheels, they impart a centering force on the steering that can make cornering more difficult. That's why they're more prevalent in RWD applications.
 
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